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0|0|0|||||Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|AGSOBA69||17:03:21|03/08/2002|The Guardian On-Line - http%3A%2F%2Fngrguardiannews.com %0D%0AThursday%2C March 7%2C 2002. %0D%0A%0D%0AGirl sues parents%2C VC%2C alleges harassment over Islamic dressing%0D%0A%0D%0AFrom Kola Alade%2C Ibadan%0D%0A%0D%0AENRAGED by alleged harassment over her Islamic dressing%2C an undergraduate student of the Obafemi Awolowo University%2C Miss Azeezah Adetokunbo Amusa has dragged her parents to court to enforce her fundamental human rights.%0D%0A%0D%0AAzeezah%2C 19%2C a Part III student of Management and Accounting in a suit filed at the High Court%2C Ile-Ife%2C Osun State%2C through her counsel%2C an Ibadan-based lawyer%2C Mr. Adebayo Shittu also joined the Vice-Chancellor%2C the Registrar and the Governing Council of the institution in case of alleged violation of human rights as enshrined in the African Charter of Human and Peoples%27 Right.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen the case came up for mention on Tuesday%2C the lady%27s father%2C Alhaji Akeem Abiodun Amusa apologised for the inability of his wife%2C Alhaja Fatima to be present at the sitting.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe parents%27 counsel%2C Mr. Yinka Afolabi%2C who pleaded for adjournment said he received the summons on Friday and he had not been properly briefed by his clients.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe university authorities represented by Mr. Yinka Ayantola also sought for adjournment on the same ground.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe presiding judge%2C B.O. Babasola granted their request and adjourned the case to March 19%2C 2002 for mention.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe lady%2C who came to the court in company of four other colleagues%2C all in black veil %28purdah%29%2C was said to have been harassed and victimised by her parents for her refusal to comply with their instruction not to use the said Islamic dressing code.%0D%0A%0D%0AShe also claimed to have been intimidated and insulted by two of her lecturers who wanted to prevent her from their classes in purdah.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn the motion for notice%2C the student is seeking a declaration that her Islamic-prescribed purdah dress whether in school%2C in public or at home%2C is a legitimate%2C lawful and valid fundamental religious right of the individual as guaranteed by the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria%2C 1999.%0D%0A%0D%0AShe also prayed the court to declare unlawful any harassment%2C intimidation and insults by any university lecturer or official or any other person against her for wearing veil as an undue%2C unwarranted and gross violation of her fundamental right.%0D%0A%0D%0AAzeezah was said to have been stripped naked and mercilessly beaten by her parents on November 24%2C 2001 and almost lynched by a mob as she was branded a thief when she attempted to escape.%0D%0A
1|1|0|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|kalu||23:39:29|03/09/2002|just asking%2C under islamic law can a child sue his%2Fher parents.%0D%0A%0D%0Abut i thimk she is within her right to dress how she want to dress.
2|2|1|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|AGSOBA69||11:38:02|03/10/2002|Kalu%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AI do not know whether or not a child can sue his%2Fher parent in Islam.  But the dichotomy of this particular issue is the freedom that Moslems enjoy in either secular or multi-religious nations but deny it in Islamic countries.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut I do know that in Islam%2C dress codes for women are dictated%3B they call it %22moderate%22 dressing.%0D%0A%0D%0ADid you hear about a female US military officer who %22had to%22 wear the black robe and veil herself while in the Saudi township%3F  Now compare her plight to this Nigerian lady here.  Do you see a problem%3F  I do%21%0D%0A%0D%0AThere should be a reciprocal engagement in the accordance of freedom or there is hypocrisy and double standard%2C which lead to intolerance.%0D%0A
3|3|2|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|jokiIrun||13:51:27|03/10/2002|%0D%0A   I DO NOT LIKE PUDAH WAY OF DRESSING AT ALL%2CAND I THINK THAT I EVEN HATE IT.I ALSO FEEL THAT PUDAH DRESSING DOES NOT HAVE MUCH TO DO WITH MY FAITH AS A MUSLEM AND AS SUCH%2CI WILL NOT ENCOURAGE ANY OF MY DAUGTHERS TO GO FOR IT.IN ITS STEAD%2CI%27LL PREFER TO GIVE MY CHILDREN SOUND HOME TRAINING%2CEXPOTURE TO GOD THROUGH WORSHIP%2CGOOD CONDUCT AND SERVICE TO HUMANITY AND SO FORTH.I%27LL ALSO NOT FAIL IN MY FILIAL RESPONSIBILITIES TO THEM.%0D%0A%0D%0A    IRRESPECTIVE OF THE FOREGOINGS%2CI STILL SYMPATHISE WITH AZEEZA.SHE EARNS MY RESPECT AND HONOR FOR HER HERROIC TRAVAILS.I CAN NOT DO MORE THAN AS EXPLAINED ABOVE%2CAS A PARENT.THE REST IS LEFT FOR THE CHILD.I THINK THAT AZEEZA%27S PARENTS AND TEACHERS HAVE GONE A LITTLE BIT TOO FAR IN THEIR DEALINGS WITH THE SITUATION.A 19 YEARS OLD UNDERGRADUTE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO ENJOY HER RIGHT TO DRESS IN HER OWN CHOSEN WAY%2CIN SO FAR AS THE MODE OF DRESSING SATISFIES THE REQUIREMENTS OF DECENCY%2CMODERACY%2CNORMALCY%2CREASONABILITY%2CRESPONSIBILITY AND MORALITY.IF THESE VIRTUES ARE MIRRORED IN PUDAH IN THE ESTIMATION OF AZEEZA%2CSO BE IT.WHY HARRAS THE POOR YOUNG GIRL%3FAZEEZA%2CCARRY ON%2CYOU HAVE MY VOTE.WE ARE WAITING TO SEE HOW THIS WILL END. 
4|4|3|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|AGSOBA69||19:34:56|03/10/2002|By Joki%2C he%92s got it%21  %0D%0A%0D%0AAt last%2C you justified your position%2C took a stand and voiced your opinion WITHOUT resorting to your religion.  At last%2C your reasoning is objective%2C and that is what I have been yapping about.  %0D%0A%0D%0AYou said%2C %93A 19 years old undergraduate should be allowed to enjoy her right to dress in her own chosen way%2C in so far as the mode of dressing satisfies the requirements of decency%2C moderacy%2C normalcy%2C reasonability%2C responsibility and morality.  If these virtues are mirrored in pudah IN THE ESTIMATION OF AZEEZA%2C so be it %28emphasized mine%29.%94  In her estimation%2C her way%2C not because of anything else%2C but because pudah means all of that to her.  Joki%2C thanx%21%0D%0A%0D%0ALike you%2C I do not have problems with how people dress or how they look as long as they let me dress and look my way.  It is futile to dispute taste.  The problem%2C Joki%2C is that one is not that free in northern Nigeria.   When a %93government%94 dictates how one should dress based on the tenets of one particular religion%2C that is intolerance.  Now%2C ALL children are required to wear turban %28if boys%29 and veil %28if girls%29 to school in Zamfara.%0D%0A%0D%0AWelcome to my world%2C Joki%2C and have great weekend.%0D%0A
5|5|4|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|Akinola Faloye||16:04:29|03/11/2002|This article%2C to me%2C demonsrates yet another misunderstanding amongst moslems%2C as to what the right way to practise Islam is. Hold on just one minute%2C jokiIrun and other moslems%3B before you go for my jugular%2C just hear me out for one second.%0D%0A%0D%0AAt issue here are two differing statements made by two educated moslems%2C on an issue pertaining to the practice of Islam. Azeezah Adetokunbo Amusa%2C a Part III student of Management and Accounting of OAU%2C claimed in her lawsuit that the %22PURDAH%22 is an %22Islamic prescribed dress%22. jokiIrun%2C a previous fervent apologetic for anything Islam%2C declared thus%3A %22 I also feel that purdah dressing does not have MUCH to do with my faith as a moslem.%22 Emphasis mine. The question now is%3B Who is right%3F and How much is MUCH%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AThis kind of confusion will continue to haunt Islam for as long as moslems insist on mixing Arab culture%2C including Arab names%2C with the practice of Islam. I wait to see the day that the Qur%27an will be translated into Yoruba language%2C and the following partly quoted Qur%27anic verse%3B %22 Your Lord is Allah...%22 will be rendered %22 Oluwa re ni Olorun re...%22. Just a thought%21%0D%0A%0D%0AAjijola%2C the srongest Yoruba moslem apologist%2C should take on the task of clearing the air on this kind of misunderstanding. And to jokiIrun%2C you are begining to shock me regularly with your articles. You are really making sense now. I promise to stay on your trail from now on%2C because I don%27t want to ever lose you AGAIN%21%0D%0A%0D%0AWelcome home brother joki%21
7|5|4|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|Debbi||19:16:27|03/11/2002|I agree and support that individuals have a right to make their own judgements individually.  However%2C i do not support the victim for having sued her parents.%0D%0A%0D%0Ai mean suing her own parents is way out of line.  i mean since when did that start in niger%3F  africans are being brainwashed and watching too many north american tv.  Rather than maintain our sacred values that makes us a unique culture%2C we are immitating the north americans way of life%2C they sue everybody.  i mean this is a family issue%2C let it stay there.  As of the lecturers%2C then i can support her legal right to sue because her personal issue is definitely not their biz.
33|2|1|||||Moslem Apologies|afarikorodo||00:42:33|03/23/2002|Jason%2C%0D%0A%0D%0AI have wondered about this Moslem Phenomenon%2C where they troup out of the Mosque %28after Friday prayers%29 and go murder somebody.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Yorubas did not actualy slaughter Ibos%2C even if Ibos felt betrayed. %28And remember the Yorubas were split into the Akintola and Awolowo camps%2C Awolowo is the one being accused%2C but unfortunately he is too dead to answer questions now%29.There are still Yorubas today who hate Awolowo.%0D%0A%0D%0A The Moslems on the other hand have openly killed%2C and continue to kill. So apolopgies and change are in order.
6|1|0|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|osah64||18:14:22|03/11/2002|I dont sympathise with the parents of the lady. In the first place who introduced her to the religion of Islam%3F  Someone must have introduced her to the religion and that person is likely to be one or both of the parents. I wonder why then they have turned around to constitute themselves as a stumbling block to her effort to becoming a complete moslem. What are they up to%3F You are either in the faith or you are out of it. They attach alhaji and alhaja to their names and yet denied a part of the islamic practice%2C I mean that is not fair to  the religion they say they believe in and the girl they brought up as a moslem they call their daughter. If it is true that they are against the idea of their daugther appearing as a moslem in public%2C of which wearing the purdah is one%2C then they should as well renounce the Islamic faith. %0D%0AThe lady is however very stupid to have taken that step of dragging the parents to court. This could be settled at home and not bring your dirty linen to the public to wash. What will be the fate of such family in terms of unity after court case%3F To me what she did is senseless and capable of resurfacing again%2C hunting the family unto generations to come.%0D%0AShe should arrange immediately to stop court proceedings and look for people in her extended family to mediate. I live in Canada and You hardly hear such happenings even in the advanced world. Na wa Nigeria na something else.%0D%0ADavid   
8|1|0|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C  I.E WAY OUTTA  LINE%21%21%21|Debbi||19:35:44|03/11/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-11-02 AT 07:36 PM (GMT+1)]As much as i support individualism%2C a person having the personal choice to make their own decisions%2C i do NOT support the victims suing of her parents.  i mean that was way out of line%2C instead of us maintaining our unique and distinct culture%2C we have decided to follow in the north american footsteps of suing everybody without any moral values whatsoever.%0D%0A%0D%0Ai mean when did suing your own parents become that of reality in Nigeria.  That was really uncalled for%2C will such a family have a stronger tie after this%3F%3A%28 
9|2|8|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C  To Faloye|myself||23:32:16|03/11/2002|This %22confusion%22 that seem to dog islam according to you is inherent in every faith%2C that is why we have e alot of factions in every religion because they seem to disagree with other%27s interpretation of some religious issues.%0D%0AAccording to the Quran  women are required to cover and leave only that which is %22obvious%22.It was the ulamas that interpreted the %22obvious%22 to be the face%2C the hand and the feet%2C and some people went on to suggest the covering of the face%2C hence the burqah.If Joki only believes that dressing decently is what that injuction states i don%27t see anything wrong with that and if the injuction above is interpreted by Aziza to mean covering herself i don%27t see anything wrong with that as well.I myself would not impose on any of my daughters to wear burqa or even cover their heads if they do not want to%2C but i will surely make them see what the quran states%2C it is left to them what they choose to do.%0D%0AAnd like every or  almost all sentiments expressed earlier%2C i think Aziza should have implored some of her family memebers help to speak to her parents and settle the matter amicably. %0D%0A
10|3|9|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%3B To myself.|Akinola Faloye||22:33:21|03/12/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-12-02 AT 10:50 PM (GMT+1)]myself%2C I will like you to furnish me with Qur%27anic verses%2C other than Qur%27an 24 verse 31%2C that recommend that a moslem woman be covered%2C leaving only the part that is important.%0D%0A%0D%0AI understand that the Qur%27an%2C like the Holy Bible%2C does call for  %22modesty%22 as far as female dressing is concerned%3B but that can not be the basis upon which a group of Christians  form a new denomination. However%2C if some members of a church do believe that Jesus Christ was not born of a virgin%2Cthen the time may be ripe for them to form their own church%21%0D%0A%0D%0AI do not know of any Islamic sect%2C whose foundation was laid on the %22proper understanding%22 of Islamic dress code. There usually are some major theological misunderstanding%2C before some people get together to form their own sect.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs far as this unbeliever is concerned though%2C I detest any form of dressing that prevents me from being able to accurately determine the gender and the apparent age of someone. If purdah%2C burkah%2C ibayah%2C veil and whatever fall into that category%2C I guess that means that I do NOT like them.%0D%0A%0D%0AModesty is appropriate in EVERYTHING%2C but turning a woman into a masqurade in the name of a religion%3F Now that is pushing it%21%0D%0AEven if the woman wants to dress that way%2C the society should say NO. There are a lot of things that people want to do%2C that the society prevents them from doing. For example%2C I will like to drive my car at 120KM an hour in downtown L.A%2C but L.A.P.D say NO%2C I can%27t.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhenever the PRACTICE of your FAITH clashes with the NORM of a SOCIETY%2C your FAITH has to be kept PERSONAL. And if you don%27t like it%2C then you can change your geographical location to that of a place where the public PRACTICE of your FAITH is the NORM%21 Azeezah needs to get out of OAU%2C and move to Zamfara or Sokoto. If she insists on staying at OAU%2C then she better be ready to endure any personal intrusions%2C because our Osun Police Officers are having a hard time as it is arresting common criminals that are not covered up in some foreign attire. Can you imagine how much worse the situation will get%2C when they can%27t even tell whether it is a man or a woman covered up in a %22parachute%22%3F%0D%0A
11|4|10|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%3B To myself.|myself||02:27:18|03/13/2002|I have no idea what you are talking about.If you are saying that Aziza should get out of OAU if she insists on wearing her burqah or hibaya then why do you complain about christains being prevented from practising their own religion in Saudi Arabia%3F%0D%0AIf you have found a verse in the quran about a woman%27s recommended way of dressing why do you need me to quote you something else%3F%0D%0AAnd about mixing arab culture and names that you keep talking about%2C i don%27t know what your problem is about that%2C after all we have people who bear  John Kolawole and Joseph Kolapo%2C now if we have people with names like Yahaya Kolawole and Yusuf Kolapo%2C what is wrong  with that%3FAfter all it is the meaning of the name that is important not where it comes from.What about people that name their children India%2C china%2C Brooklyn and houston%3FEvery one that gives his child a name must have a significance attached to the name.%0D%0AI must let you know that i will not be drawn into any debate with you%2C i personally have no problems with Aziza or any one dressing the way they want%2Cas long as it is decent.Nothing should be forced on any one%2C and i do not believe that lawlessness  should be allowed either.%0D%0AWhat i am saying about religious confusion is not particularly about dressing codes%2C i am referring generally to issues%2C don%27t you have Jehova witness%2C catholics%2C anglican and protestants in christainity%2C why%3FSame applies to islam%2C shi%27a%2C sunni%2C Qadriya and so on.%0D%0Apls relax and read my response with open mind before you respond.
12|5|11|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%3B To Faloye|myself||03:03:51|03/13/2002|So are you saying if she moves to Zamfara or Sokoto where she will be free to dress as she likes%2C then it is right for the Zamfara govt to insist on every woman wear the burqah irrespective of whether they want to do that or not moslem or non moslem%2C then what is all the outcry about pupils being forced to wear turban in Zamfara then%3F what is the  outcry for human rights abuses all about%3FBecause i do not believe that anyone should be forced to do anything that they do not want to do%2C ecxept if it is against a legitimate law.%0D%0AIf i remember very well this issue is about the girl insisting that that is what she wants to wear not about the OAU adminstration  wanting to expell her because of the way she dresses.Too bad you are not in the position to kick her out as you wil have loved to do.%0D%0A
13|6|12|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%3B To myself.|Akinola Faloye||22:14:50|03/13/2002|Judging from your pieces number 11 and 12%2C you must have been under the impression that I believe that the Azeezah%27s case is that of violation of her freedom of religious expression. I do not believe so for one minute. In this case%2C Azeezah is nothing more than a pawn in the game of the intolerant moslem groups to Islamize the world in general%2C and Nigeria in particular. You can bet your last Naira that the lady did NOT%2C on her own%2C file those charges in court.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen it comes to intolerance%2C the moslems all over the world are front and center. The claim of Azeezah is the other face of that of the butcher of Zamfara%2C Alhaaaaaji Sani. Let me explain myself.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn Zamfara%2C when the butcher wanted to introduce the Sharia law%2C he as well as some moslems on this site%2C used the THEORY of MAJORITY as a justification for it. They claimed then that MOST Zamfarans wanted it%2C and since Nigeria is a %22democracy%22%2C the rest of us must shut up%21 So now%2C the law of the land in Zamfara is the %22impartial%22 Shariah.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow we have Azeezah. She says that even if the MAJORITY of the Faculty and Student body of OAU are NOT in agreement with her overt religious expression%2C and even if she is in the MINORITY%2C they MUST indulge her anyway%2C in the name of freedom of religious expression.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow do you see the problem%3F Whenever MAJORITY moslems want to impose their Islamic codes on non-moslems in thier midst%2C they use the %22MAJORITY RULE%22 concept to shout down their opponents%21 And whenever MINORITY moslems want to get their way%2C they invoke the TOLERANCE article of FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION as enshrined in the United Nations Charter to get their way.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe question is%3B Why don%27t majority moslems recognize the RIGHTS of MINORITY non-moslems amongst them%3F Instead of recognizing that right for non-moslems%2C the majority moslems usually prefer to turn them into other moslems.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou will notice that the believers of other FAITHS do not attempt to FORCE their dress codes on everyone. It is only moslems who do that. The Krishna guys do not insist on attending lectures in their wraparounds. The Ogun worshippers do not force their dress code on the entire populace of OAU. Why not%3F Aren%27t they as serious about their Faith as the moslems%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AIf there is a lecture on world religions%2C Azeezah as well as other believers%2C should be free to put on their religious outfits as a practical expression of their faiths. The University is trying to teach the whole world%2C and not just moslems who believe in wearing burkah all over the place. There are many Yoruba female moslems who cover themselves up completely in public%2C no one has ever sued them for doing that. What Azeezah and her helpers are trying to accomplish is to subvert the humanistic governing laws of a University%2C and replace it with a religious law. Now I ask you%2C whose religion should be next in line for tolerance%3F The problem with moslems is that they never see the larger picture. They are always narrow minded in favour of JUST ANYTHING ISLAMIC%21%21%21%0D%0A%0D%0AAzeezah does not have the freedom to wear burkah in OAU%2C any more than a Christian has the freedom to sing %22Jesus is coming back soon%22 in a Zamfaran mosque%21 THE RELIGION OF MOST WORLD UNIVERSITIES IS HUMANISM%2C leave your Islam in your mind and let peace reign%21%0D%0A%0D%0AI have frequently criticized the holy land of moslems for denying non-moslems the right to worship without intimidation. Christians are NOT asking the Saudi government the right to pray to Jesus Christ in a mosque full of moslems. They are NOT asking for the right to celebrate Easter in the middle of Kaaba. They just want to be FREE. They want to be free to practise their own religion amongst themselves. They are not forcing anybody to come and watch them in a Church%2C but moslems still threaten them in their simple small Churches. Did you know that an American Christian was sentenced to three months in jail in Saudi Arabia%2C just for having the HOLY BIBLE in his suitcase at the airport%3F That is the kind of intolerance that I am talking about%3F Would it be alright with you if the authority in Vatican City were to convict a moslem  just for having the Qur%27an in his suitcase at the airport%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AOn the issue of Arabic names. I do not know of any moslems without an Arabic name. Even after they convert to Islam%2C moslems are always given Arabic names. It is impossible to divorce ARABIC anything from Islam. You are familiar with names like%3B Cassius Clay%2C Malcolm X%2C Mike Tyson%2C Richard Reed etc. All those people had their names changed to Arabic names upon conversion to Islam. On my desk here is a book written by an Arab ex-moslem. When he became a Christian%2C his name did not change. When my sister was a student at a Catholic Church in Nigeria%2C the Father baptized her and added a new name%3B Matilda%2C to her already long list of Nigerian names. My father made my sister drop that new name like a burning akamu. The last identity I want to have now is a Jewish name written in Aramaic%21 That will really make me a Christian%2C right%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AMyself%2C I need to advise you to stop acting like a little child. You act that way everytime you state that you don%27t want to discuss with me simply because I disagree with you. Disagreement is what brings about innovation and invention and education. There are people of like minds%2C but that does not mean that they agree on every issue. I love my parents%2C but I don%27t always agree with them. So grow up%21
14|7|13|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%3B To myself.|myself||04:04:43|03/14/2002|%0D%0AThe main reason why i always state that i do not want to be drawn into a debate with you is simple%2C it never ends%2C and hence the so called innovation or inventions that you mentioned never ever materialise with you in any discussion especially if it is about islam.If we   both disagree on issues there should be a common ground to work out something agreeable to both of us but it never happens does it%3F so my %22childishness%22 stems from frustration.%0D%0AYou said that Azeza does not have the right to dress the way she wants to in OAU%2Canymore than the christains can sing %22Jesus is coming back in a Zamfara mosque%22%2C you are kidding right%3F %27cos i do not understand%2C are you by implication saying that OAU is a church%3F%0D%0ABecause on campus in the north%2C i went to ABU%2C you should  see how many chapels there are on campus and make shifts ones in the form of our lecture rooms.And i can not remember this lady suggesting that anyone should wear burqah.so now it is a moslem conspiracy%2C part of islamisation of the world%2Fnigeria  programme isn%27t it%3Fyou are beginning to sound unlike your self%2C Faloye.Very much so%21%21%0D%0AAnd why are you twisting the issues at hand just so you can get an argument%2Cthe OAU students are not protesting that she should not wear her burqah%2C w%0D%0Ahy are you making it seem so%3F because that is your view%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AIf someone is arrested in saudi arabia for carrying a bible what has that got to do with me or the issue at hand%2C and in any case my %0D%0Aview about it would mean nothing to you anyway%2C so%3F%0D%0ALook if the intolerance you claim to be speaking out against is your own attitude how do you propose any form of understanding %0D%0Aand tolerance between moslems and other people of other faith.The question is do  you even want the tolerance%3F%0D%0AAs for names it is your choice and your parents%27s choice to name their child what means something to them%2C if Matilda meant nothing to%0D%0A your Dad and he dropped the name%2C what is wrong with that%3F so also if others want to give arabic names to their child so what%2C it is not a %0D%0Amust in islam for a moslem to bear an arabic name%2C it is just recommended that you shold give your child a good name and a significant one %0D%0Athat is all.You did not tell me the moslem names  of Malcolm X%2C Louis Farakhan%2C Elijah Wood%2C or is it an ace up your sleeve%3F%0D%0ALook we could go on and on about christainity vs islam%2C it will never get us anywhere%2Cit only takes us farther and farther away from understanding %0D%0Aeach other.Don%27t you wonder at the breakdown in communication between myself and your self considerign how it started...i do.%0D%0AThe answer is simple%2C we are not seeking an understanding and trying to put the wrong right%2C in my case educating my fellow muslims in %0D%0Aany small way i can%2C with my little knowledge there by encouraging people to speak out with the truth%2Cand educate our people on the true %0D%0Anature of what islam is all about%2C look at Folami%27s write up on the other topic of advising a governor to become a moslem%2C we have a lot of like %0D%0Aminded moslems%2C if we do that in our own small ways i think with time the image of islam would be viewed better in time%2C if not any where else then %0D%0Aat least in nigeria.%0D%0ABut i can tell you your attacks on any explanation i come up with about any misinterpretation of islam is not helping at all%2C will never help%2Cunfortunatley  %0D%0Awe also have a lot like minded christains like yourself.%0D%0AIf the christains speak up against anything which pertains other factions of christainity it is  usually hailed%2C if moslems speak up against anything that %0D%0Apertains other it is usually viewed with suspicion%2C when will it ever end%3F%0D%0AHow many people saw the all night vigilant held  by the Iranians for the victim of the 9%2F11%3F but in contrast how many people  DID NOT SEE %0D%0Athe jubiliation of a few palestinians for the same tragedy%3FOn one hand you criticized the saudis for not allowing the US military base to attack Afghansitan%2C and yet you said that Pakistan is doing it for the dollars%28no disputing%29%2C can the moslems ever do right%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AWill you ever agree with any moslem%27s view or explanation of any issues%2C especially about islam%2Cor any misconception%2C if the person refuse to put islam%0D%0A down%2C will you%3F i am not saying you should agree with every explanation but is there any chance that it will make sense to you%3FI hope i phrased %0D%0Amy question well for you to understand what i am trying to say.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A
15|8|14|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%3B To myself.|Akinola Faloye||16:19:46|03/14/2002|Myself%2C your question is very clear%2C and I understand it very well. The last question in your penultimate paragraph needs to be directed at moslems%2C NOT at Christians%21%0D%0A%0D%0ACan Christians EVER be right in the eyes of moslems%2C or are they %28 Christians %29 FOREVER going to be viewed as NOTHING more than INFIDELS by moslems%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AI am sorry that you failed to recognize the comparison that I was trying to make in the case of Azeezah%27s insistence to wear burkah in lectures. I wrote that the RELIGION practised by most world Universities is HUMANISM%3B believe it or not%2C it is a religion. It is a religion that puts HUMAN in charge of EVERYTHING. And that is why most WORLD UNIVERSITIES teach EVOLUTIONISM as opposed to CREATIONISM. If Azeezah wears a burkah to a campus mosque at OAU%2C I am sure that no lecturers will challenge her authority for doing so. In a mosque%2C it is safe to assume that all the people there are familiar with such an expression of her religion. But the same is NOT true in a lecture hall. And that is why Azeezah and her handlers should be tolerant of other people who may NOT share in the belief of her religious expression%21%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd that is also why RELIGION should be PRIVATE. OAU IS NOT A PRIVATE UNIVERSITY%21 The attorneys for the University better win this case%2C because their defeat is going to be yet another small erosion in the valley of %22 SEPARATION OF STATE AND RELIGION %22 %21%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you disagree with my current expalanation%2C it is OK. I capitulate. But I just want you to bear in mind that%2C if we continue as a Nation along the path of RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE%2C set in motion by Alhaaaaaji Sani%2C there may NOT be a UNITED NIGERIA for all of us to call a HOME%21 
16|9|15|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%3B To myself.|jokiIrun||18:05:59|03/14/2002|%3EMyself%2C your question is very clear%2C and I understand it %0D%0A%3Every well. The last question in your penultimate paragraph %0D%0A%3Eneeds to be directed at moslems%2C NOT at Christians%21 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ECan Christians EVER be right in the eyes of moslems%2C or are %0D%0A%3Ethey %28 Christians %29 FOREVER going to be viewed as NOTHING %0D%0A%3Emore than INFIDELS by moslems%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI am sorry that you failed to recognize the comparison that %0D%0A%3EI was trying to make in the case of Azeezah%27s insistence to %0D%0A%3Ewear burkah in lectures. I wrote that the RELIGION practised %0D%0A%3Eby most world Universities is HUMANISM%3B believe it or not%2C %0D%0A%3Eit is a religion. It is a religion that puts HUMAN in charge %0D%0A%3Eof EVERYTHING. And that is why most WORLD UNIVERSITIES teach %0D%0A%3EEVOLUTIONISM as opposed to CREATIONISM. If Azeezah wears a %0D%0A%3Eburkah to a campus mosque at OAU%2C I am sure that no %0D%0A%3Electurers will challenge her authority for doing so. In a %0D%0A%3Emosque%2C it is safe to assume that all the people there are %0D%0A%3Efamiliar with such an expression of her religion. But the %0D%0A%3Esame is NOT true in a lecture hall. And that is why Azeezah %0D%0A%3Eand her handlers should be tolerant of other people who may %0D%0A%3ENOT share in the belief of her religious expression%21 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAnd that is also why RELIGION should be PRIVATE. OAU IS NOT %0D%0A%3EA PRIVATE UNIVERSITY%21 The attorneys for the University %0D%0A%3Ebetter win this case%2C because their defeat is going to be %0D%0A%3Eyet another small erosion in the valley of %22 SEPARATION OF %0D%0A%3ESTATE AND RELIGION %22 %21 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EIf you disagree with my current expalanation%2C it is OK. I %0D%0A%3Ecapitulate. But I just want you to bear in mind that%2C if we %0D%0A%3Econtinue as a Nation along the path of RELIGIOUS %0D%0A%3EINTOLERANCE%2C set in motion by Alhaaaaaji Sani%2C there may NOT %0D%0A%3Ebe a UNITED NIGERIA for all of us to call a HOME%21 %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A   Akin%2C%0D%0A%0D%0A     Your contribution above is a typical case of logic standing on its head.Haba%21%0D%0A%0D%0A    Contrary to your view%2Cthe university is the epitome of freedom and almost unlimited enjoyment of human right.That is why Azeeza is right while his lecturers and parents are wrong in the case under this discussion.I do not know if you did school in Nigeria.Go to any university in Nigeria and see how some of these young girls dress to the class%2Cyou will then get to understand what i mean.These rights are not restrained or ganged by whatever you may have meant by %22Humanity%22as being the %22RELIGION practised by most world universities%22.Infact%2Cwhat do you really mean by this submision.Was it Azeeza who was intolerant in this case or her tormentors%3FWhat is their problem with the mode of dressing of the poor girl%3F%22O ya mi lenu o%22%28I wonder o%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A    This case is relatively novel in the anals of Nigerian legal history.However%2Ci%27am waiting to see what arguement the defense counsels would profer to earn them victory for their clients.Let%27s wait and see.%22Ki Olorun lora emin wa%2Camin%22%28May God keep us alife%2Camen%29.
17|9|15|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%3B To myself.|Jason||08:15:14|03/15/2002|Faloye%2C I have seen Muslim women in the US and in other Christian countries wear the hijab in classes at schools or universities.  Nothing is wrong with her wearing a purdah if she wants to.  her parents should not have pulled it off her%2C nor she have been tormnented by the university.%0D%0A%0D%0AI do agree with you one thing%2C this legal case will be as a battle between the Muslim fundamentalists and their opponents.  This case will have far reaching legal consequences%2C because as people like you attack this young woman%2C the extremists will use this to say Muslims are endangered in Yoruba land%2C and that sharia must be imposed in order to protect.  Similiarly%2C Christian extremists in the US will claim to be under attack in order to find ways to get the upper hand. You%2C Faloye%2C are not thinking rationally and actually furthering the cause of the fundamentalists since can quite legitimately claim people like you are prejuidiced.
18|10|17|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%3B To myself.|Jason||08:35:54|03/15/2002|Faloye is correct about one other thing.  Arabic culture is interwined with Islam.  You can not seperate them.  Around the time oil was discovered in the Middle East%2C you had a lot of Muslims in palces like the subcontinent of India%2C Indonesia%2C or for matter%2C in the sahel region of Africa%2C in East Africa who did not speak Arabic and were illiterate.  When the Saudis became aware of how many Muslims did not speak Arabic%2C they endeaveored to use their oil money to do something about.  Fron the subcontinent of India to Africa they funded schools.  In these schools%2C devout Muslim students are taught Arabic.   As Africa is Islamized it will be Arabized%2C and same process repeats itself in Muslim Asian countries like Pakistan.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow%2C other colonial languages like English%2C Spanish%2C French have also wiped out another of other languages as well.%0D%0A%0D%0AIslamic converts typically change their names to Arabic names.  By as urbanization increases%2C think of this. Let%27s say a Hausa Muslim marries a Yoruba Muslim.  What languages would the child speak%3F  Well%2C English is the offical language of Nigeria so of course the child would speak that.  As a Muslim he%27d learn Arabic as well.  And most likely the parents owuld not bother to teach Yoruba or Hausa.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe countries in Africa listed with the greatest linguistic loss are the Sudan%2C Nigeria%2C and Ethiopia. And I can see why.  On an Eritrean website the extremists there going on about Arabic is the language of God%21%0D%0A%0D%0A
19|11|18|||||To Jason.|Akinola Faloye||16:56:54|03/15/2002|Jason%2C you are absolutely right%3B I am prejudiced. I am prejudiced in favour of SEPARATION OF STATE AND RELIGION%2C while most Nigerian moslems are prejudiced AGAINST it%21%0D%0A%0D%0ALet me make just one last attempt to clarify my position on this Azeezah%27s issue.%0D%0A%0D%0A1. The butcher of Zamfara%2C in his attempt to introduce Sharia%2C IGNORED the RIGHTS of the MINORITY NON-MOSLEMS in his State. He later went one step further by IMPOSING the wearing of an Islamic apparel on ALL NON-MOSLEM STUDENTS OF HIS STATE%21 The %22 Freedom of Religious Expression %22 clause was NEVER INVOKED by Alhaaaaaji Sani as a means of protecting those MINORITY NON-MOSLEMS in his State. And Alhaaaaaji sani was NEVER tried in any  court of law for any of his actions%21%0D%0A%0D%0A2. Azeezah prefers to wear purdah to lectures. Her lecturers say NO to her. She goes to court. In her lawsuit%2C she invokes %22 Freedom of Religious Expression %22 clause.%0D%0A%0D%0AAzeezah and Alhaaaaaji Sani are both members of the same FAITH. My position is%3B If the %22 Freedom of Religious Expression %22 clause WAS NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE BUTCHER OF ZAMFARA%2C PERTAINING TO THOSE NON-MOSLEM MINORITIES IN HIS STATE%3B IN HIS BID TO INTRODUCE AN ISLAMIC LAW%2C WHY SHOULD IT BE AVAILABLE TO ANOTHER MOSLEM TO IMPOSE ANOTHER FORM OF ISLAMIC DRESS CODE ON THE MAJORITY%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ABasically the argument that I am trying to put forward is that the moslems are trying to eat their cake and have it too. On one hand%2C Alhaaaaji Sani%2C a moslem%2C denied the minority non-moslems in his State the right to exercise their Freedom of Religious Expression%2C by introducing an Islamic law%2C while in another State%2C Azeezah%2C another moslem%2C wants to enjoy the same Islamic law even though she is in the MINORITY%2C using Freedom of Religious Expression clause that was not available to the minority non-moslems in Zamfara. Giving her that opportunity will essentially be tantamount to her%2C as a MINORITY member%2C enjoying the FULL BENEFIT of her religious practices%2C while the minority non-moslems in Sharia States are DENIED the same opportunity. If that luxury  is NOT AVAILABLE to those MINORITY non-moslems in Zamfara and Sokoto etc%2C it should NOT be available to Azeezah in OAU%21 You have to bear in mind here that it is ONLY ONE RELIGION%2C the SAME RELIGION%2C that is slated to be the BENEFICIARY of this DOUBLE DIPPING APPROACH TO LEGALISM.%0D%0A%0D%0AJason%2C America is NOT a Christian country. Its foundation may be Christian%2C but it has swayed so far away from Christianity%2C it is a miracle that it still stands as a Nation today.%0D%0A%0D%0A
20|12|19|||||RE%3A To Jason.|jokiIrun||20:08:19|03/16/2002|%3EJason%2C you are absolutely right%3B I am prejudiced. I am %0D%0A%3Eprejudiced in favour of SEPARATION OF STATE AND RELIGION%2C %0D%0A%3Ewhile most Nigerian moslems are prejudiced AGAINST it%21 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ELet me make just one last attempt to clarify my position on %0D%0A%3Ethis Azeezah%27s issue. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E1. The butcher of Zamfara%2C in his attempt to introduce %0D%0A%3ESharia%2C IGNORED the RIGHTS of the MINORITY NON-MOSLEMS in %0D%0A%3Ehis State. He later went one step further by IMPOSING the %0D%0A%3Ewearing of an Islamic apparel on ALL NON-MOSLEM STUDENTS OF %0D%0A%3EHIS STATE%21 The %22 Freedom of Religious Expression %22 clause %0D%0A%3Ewas NEVER INVOKED by Alhaaaaaji Sani as a means of %0D%0A%3Eprotecting those MINORITY NON-MOSLEMS in his State. And %0D%0A%3EAlhaaaaaji sani was NEVER tried in any  court of law for any %0D%0A%3Eof his actions%21 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E2. Azeezah prefers to wear purdah to lectures. Her lecturers %0D%0A%3Esay NO to her. She goes to court. In her lawsuit%2C she %0D%0A%3Einvokes %22 Freedom of Religious Expression %22 clause. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAzeezah and Alhaaaaaji Sani are both members of the same %0D%0A%3EFAITH. My position is%3B If the %22 Freedom of Religious %0D%0A%3EExpression %22 clause WAS NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE BUTCHER OF %0D%0A%3EZAMFARA%2C PERTAINING TO THOSE NON-MOSLEM MINORITIES IN HIS %0D%0A%3ESTATE%3B IN HIS BID TO INTRODUCE AN ISLAMIC LAW%2C WHY SHOULD IT %0D%0A%3EBE AVAILABLE TO ANOTHER MOSLEM TO IMPOSE ANOTHER FORM OF %0D%0A%3EISLAMIC DRESS CODE ON THE MAJORITY%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EBasically the argument that I am trying to put forward is %0D%0A%3Ethat the moslems are trying to eat their cake and have it %0D%0A%3Etoo. On one hand%2C Alhaaaaji Sani%2C a moslem%2C denied the %0D%0A%3Eminority non-moslems in his State the right to exercise %0D%0A%3Etheir Freedom of Religious Expression%2C by introducing an %0D%0A%3EIslamic law%2C while in another State%2C Azeezah%2C another %0D%0A%3Emoslem%2C wants to enjoy the same Islamic law even though she %0D%0A%3Eis in the MINORITY%2C using Freedom of Religious Expression %0D%0A%3Eclause that was not available to the minority non-moslems in %0D%0A%3EZamfara. Giving her that opportunity will essentially be %0D%0A%3Etantamount to her%2C as a MINORITY member%2C enjoying the FULL %0D%0A%3EBENEFIT of her religious practices%2C while the minority %0D%0A%3Enon-moslems in Sharia States are DENIED the same %0D%0A%3Eopportunity. If that luxury  is NOT AVAILABLE to those %0D%0A%3EMINORITY non-moslems in Zamfara and Sokoto etc%2C it should %0D%0A%3ENOT be available to Azeezah in OAU%21 You have to bear in mind %0D%0A%3Ehere that it is ONLY ONE RELIGION%2C the SAME RELIGION%2C that %0D%0A%3Eis slated to be the BENEFICIARY of this DOUBLE DIPPING %0D%0A%3EAPPROACH TO LEGALISM. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EJason%2C America is NOT a Christian country. Its foundation %0D%0A%3Emay be Christian%2C but it has swayed so far away from %0D%0A%3EChristianity%2C it is a miracle that it still stands as a %0D%0A%3ENation today. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A      Akinnnnn%21%2C%0D%0A        Look Akin%2Ci conceded more intelligence to you than you are demonstrating of late.Why now%3FIs anything the matter with you%3FIf so let%27s share it%2Cafterall we are friends and brothers.Haba%21%0D%0A%0D%0A    I can%27t just imagine that the Akin of my rating will be so ignorant of how government works or be incapable of differentiating between a regime and the dramatis personae therein.These are too commonplace and too trite  %0D%0Afor any adult who could lay any claim to some educational attainments not to know.Wonderful%21For your information%2Cit is the regime or administration of Ahamed Sanni in Zamfara that introduced the criminal aspect of the Sharia to the State and not Sanni as an individual.He can only do so on individual basis in his private  house and amongst his immediate family.As a member of government%2Che can not be held responsible as an individual for policy issues introduced and or executed by the administration in which he operates as a member%2C even though he is the chief executive.Taken%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A   Furthermore%2Cas a serving state governor%2CAlhaji Sanni can not be sued as an individual.He can not be arrested  and neither can any police or even judicial enquiry be instituted against him.This is the provision of the Constitution of the Federal Republic Of Nigeria and Sanni did not have any hand in its making%2Cat least to my knowledge.Where then would any agrieved party in his State get the legal right to sue him as reasoned by you%3FAt best%2Csuch an agrieved or injured party can sue the State government.But no such action has ever been instituted by anybody in Zamfara.This then gives one the impresion that all is well with the inhabitants therein irrespective of their faiths%2Cor at least that they seem not to have anything against the Sharia legal code.I do not want to believe that all such parties%2Cif indeed they do exist in the State as you alleged%2Care unaware of their right in this respect.Not in any part of Nigeria of today will such a degree of ignorance exist%2CI submit%21%0D%0A%0D%0A    Now the case of Azeeza is a different ball game.As a victim of injustice%2Cshe has the constitutional right to sue to redress the alleged insult%2Cassault and naked injustice done to her by her assailants%2Cnon of whom was a State governor%2CDeputy Governor%2CPresident or Vice president%2Cbeing the only four categories of individuals immuned to all actions in Nigeria.She was favourably disposed to exercising this right and as such%2Cshe did sue her alleged tormentors.%0D%0A%0D%0A    I do not want to believe that you do not know these very very simple questions of the law%2Cand indeed you do know them.Your display of ingnorance is a demonstration of what prejudice and bias can do to people.I have advised you many times to free your mind from these vices%2Cso you could think straight and then be the real man that you were meant to be%2Cbut you have so far failed to yield to my advice.See now where this obstinacy has led you.I wish you good luck%2Chave a nice time and feel fine.%0D%0A
21|12|19|||||RE%3A To Jason.|Jason||23:17:30|03/16/2002|Faloye%2C Azeeza is an individual.  The fact Zamafra forces all male students to wear turbans and all female students to wear veils is not her fault.  In OAU%2C there isn%27t any official rule saying that women can not wear the veil%2C nor should that be.  Azeeza the individual is not trying to force all women in veils or all men in turbans.  Agreed%2C radical Islamists may very well use this case to somehow gain the uper hand.  But that was because of narrow minded people like you and her parents bullying a girl just because you don%27t like Muslim fundamentalists.  It was wrong to torment her.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow%2C here in the US in the state of Florida%2C a Muslim woman sued the state because wanted her to take off her veil in order to take a picture for her driver%27s license.  That was stupid because they need to see her picture for a photo id%2C and I will be very angry if she wins the case.  Another Muslim woman got angry because she was felt up while they inspectors aboard the airlines were searching people.  Well%2C they feel people of other religions to%2C and so this woman also should not win%2C unless she can prove she was specifically discriminated against.%0D%0A%0D%0AI do agree with Faloye that non religious universities teach humanism%2C and no religion like Christianity%2C Islam%2C etc. And that%27s fine.  But still%2C if an university is truly an open minded place where people go to learn about others%2C then they have no right to target someone because of his or her race%2C religion%2C ethnicity%2C etc. When black students in the US started attending universities%2C white students harrassed them.  That is the samrthing as the non Muslims harrasing Azeeza%2C it is like the racism that was directed towards black students.%0D%0A%0D%0AFaloye is a racist%21
22|13|21|||||RE%3A To Jason.|jokiIrun||17:26:47|03/17/2002|   Jason%2C%0D%0A       Thanks for your further clarifications and expatiatins on this matter.I hope that our man will now get to know better.However%2Cold habits die hard%21%0D%0A%0D%0A       You are entittled to your opinion on Akin.However%2Ci do not think that he is a racist per se%2C as you alleged.He is an irredemable hater of Islam and all muslems all over the world%2Cirrespective of their color%2Ccreed or clan.He nurses a very strong aversion for anything Islamic and this has considerably impaired his ability to reason in any logical manner.Rabid hatred%2Cbias%2Cjaundisim and prejudice are his stock in trade%2Cwhenever any issue that has to do with Islam is being discussed.This is too unfortunate for someone who is suppossed to be of large heart and fertile mind.It is hoped that he %27ll retrace his step and turn over a new leave.Shall we pray%2CAmen. 
23|14|22|||||RE%3A To Jason.|myself||00:00:23|03/18/2002|Like Joki pointed out i do not believe Faloye is racist he is just islamphobic.And i am beginning to be alarmed by his way of reasoning these days%2C it is so much unlike him%2C or are we just seeing the true him%3F does not add up.%0D%0AAnd about this Zamfara state issue of telling students to wear turban to school%2C moslem or non moslems%2C how many have bothered to check the truth about this story%3F i have never commented on that issue %27cos it sounded crazy to me. I have called home and no one has heard about it%3FAnd if it is true%2C what is CAN doing about it%2C given their activites in nigeria in the past i do not beleive they will just sit  watch this happen.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A
24|15|23|||||To jokiIrun%2CJason and myself.|Akinola Faloye||21:58:23|03/18/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-02 AT 10:21 PM (GMT+1)]Let me first inform jokiIrun that I have never asked anyone to concede anything to me. I do not write any better than most forumites%2C nor do I possess a higher intelligence. You made all that up to soften the blow of your attack on a piece that is definitely over your head. I have told you in the past that I do not write to be liked%2C nor do I write for anyone%27s approval. When I supposedly wrote those wonderful and intelligent pieces that  made you %22concede%22 so much %22intelligence%22 to me%2C did you tell me then%3F Now that I wrote a piece that is obviously over the %22head%22 of all three of you moslems%2C you wanted to justify your attack of that piece by claiming  %22 intelligence concession %22.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you all have the ability to think farther than your noses can perceive an odour%2C you would have noticed that there was NOTHING ambigous about my ANALYSIS of Azeezah%27s case. At the CORE of that analysis is the UNRELENTING effort of MOSLEMS to impose their WILL on ALL PEOPLE%2C REGARDLESS of their percentage %28moslems%29 in a population.  When they are in the majority%2C they love DEMOCRACY and despise INDIVIDUALITY. When they are in the minority%2C they love INDIVIDUALITY and despise DEMOCRACY. This is very typical of moslems approach to enforcing their WILL on peoples%2C all over the world%21%0D%0A%0D%0ATo Jason%2C you are definetely free to call me a RACIST. When I refer to Islam as a CULT%2C I do so because I have MORE THAN ENOUGH REASONS TO JUSTIFY MY POSITION. I sure hope that you have enough reasons to call me a RACIST. The fact that you called me a racist exposes your academic understanding of the meaning of the word%3B %22RACIST%22. And you are a University student%3F Yours is definitely a perfect argument AGAINST OPEN ENROLLMENTS in Universities%21 %0D%0A%0D%0ATo myself%2C referring to me as an Islamaphobic has to be the UNDERSTATEMENT of the century%21 I am far worse than that%2C and I don%27t understand why you should be surprised%2C given the position that your Qur%27an puts me in. If I am Islamaphobic%2C then the Qur%27an is Christianphobic%2C Jewphobic%2C atheistphobic%2C paganphobic etc. Did you know that Islam is the only faith in the whole world whose %22holy%22 book SPECIFICALLY IDENTIFIES other faiths for PHYSICAL ATTACKS%3F And you have the temerity to call me a  %22phobic%22%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AIslam is really a CULT%21%21%21
25|16|24|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun%2CJason and myself.|Jason||00:17:43|03/19/2002|Faloye%3A You are so full of hate is is like you are under demonic possession.  When people get so full of hate towards people just because are different in the name of any religion%28whether Christian%2C Muslim%2C Hindu%2C Yoruba%2C etc%29%2C they are capable of any evil.  You remind me of the Oman%2C where those deluded people thought they were following God%2C instead%2C they were following Satan%21%0D%0A%0D%0ADo we have to call a priest to exercise the demon possessing Faloye and robbing him of his ability to reason%21%0D%0A%0D%0AThere were times in the history of Islam in which they were tolerant to religious minorities.  I nthe past %2Cthey were tolerant to Christians and Jews in the Middle East%2C North Africa%2C and Ethiopia.  They did not kill them off.  They also tolerant of Christians and Jews after they conqueored Spain and then the Balkans.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Catholic church was intolerant of jews and muslims however%2C and either forced them to convert or expelled them.  Most recently the Christians murdered many Jews during World War II%28the Pope did not try to speak out against it at the time%29%2C nor did the Pope say anything when the various Christian groups%28Catholics and Orthodox%29 started to massacre themselves and the Muslims.%0D%0A%0D%0AI agree that the Muslim leadership should speak out more against the injustices in the Islamic world%2C such as the massacre of the shiites in Pakistan%2C and against violence in general. But the Catholic church needs to speak more about the atrocities the Christians committed. Recently the Catholic church apologized for going along with the Nazis%2C for condoning the enslavement of Africans and massacre of Native Americans%2C etc.  Yet Faloye%2C whose brain has been altered by extreme demonic%2FSatanic hatred and fanaticism%2C has lost his ability to see this.%0D%0A%0D%0AAkinola Faloye is really Satan%21
26|17|25|||||To Jason.|Akinola Faloye||17:06:42|03/19/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-02 AT 05:16 PM (GMT+1)]Jason%2C didn%27t you at one time say that you were NOT a moslem%3F I guess it is safe to NOW say that Jason%2C the closetted moslem%2C is now OUT%21%0D%0A%0D%0AEvery time you complain about Christianity%2C your complaints have been limited to what INDIVIDUAL Christians or GROUPS of Christians did or did not do. Even though I have told you in the past that I do not defend nor denounce any individual or group of Christians%2C you keep raising it as an issue. My issue is with the TEXTS of Islam and CHRISTIANITY. But since you lack the ABILITY to discuss the two texts in question%2C you keep citing events%2C whose historicity you don%27t even understand%21%0D%0A%0D%0ALet me pointedly ask you this question%3A Are you a beneficiary of  University open enrollment%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd by the way%2C you can be more creative in designing your own mantra%2C the method you are using now lacks ORIGINALITY%21
28|18|26|||||RE%3A To Jason.|Jason||23:49:52|03/20/2002|Faloye%2C I myself am not Muslim. I am not a beneficiary of University open enrollment.%0D%0A%0D%0AMy interest in the history of Islam started when most of the people I knew who were Arab or West African said I look like a Fulani or a Hausa.  Then later on I saw Hausa people who look just like myself or relatives of mine.  I think their culture is very interesting.  And I do think Islam produced a a number of great civilizations across Africa%2C like Mali%2C Songhai%2C the Moors%2C Tripoli%2C Egypt%28after Arab conquest%29%2C the Hausa states%2C the empire of Usman Dan Fodio. They heavily influenced the development of Ethiopia as well.%0D%0A%0D%0ASo anyway%2C I have registered for my classes in the fall%28I study History%29%2C and I will be taking Arabic%28amonst by other courses%29.  I know the Hausa write many of their books in Arabic script%2C and according to what read in the news%2C the legal text use in the sharia are written in Arabic%2C so I would like to read them as well.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut wanting to learn more about Islamic civilizations does not make me a Muslim%21%0D%0A%0D%0AI recently learned that Universities in the US%2C Brazil%2C and Africa have been cataloging the dna of various African ethnic groups.  One woman whose parents were Jaimaican%28but she grew up in the US0%2C had her dna tested%2C and learned what ethnic group her family was in Ghana.  One day I will have my dna tensted to find out exactly where I am from ancestrally in West Africa and to see if I am Hausa or Fulani.  If so%2C I will come to one of the communities in nations such as Nigeria%2C Niger%2C or Ghana that have communities of Hausa and%2For Fulani.
27|17|25|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun%2CJason and myself.|Gaga||15:44:58|03/20/2002|Jason perhaps you ought to sit back and re-read what you just wrote. You accuse the Church of the role it played and did not play in history. To cite the examples you gave concerning the Catholic Church and the Holocaust%2C or Slavery%2C these were darks episodes in the history of the Catholic Church. The role of the Catholic church cannot be used an an instrument to tarnish Christianity. That is an accusation that can never stand. Then again%2C you said the Catholic church resently apologized for its past %27deeds%27. What does that tell you%3F When you apologize%2C that means you accept responsibility%2C you accept blame%2C and the process of restitution and healing can commence.%0D%0A%0D%0ACite one example where Muslims have apologized for anything%2C just one. To narrow it down%2C let%27s use Nigeria as a case study. How many times have Nigerian muslims accepted responsibility for the violence they begin which ends up in the massacre of thousands innocent people%3F Please let%27s limit the discussion to clear facts and straight answers. I%27m not interested in history or redundant rantings. Just answer the question. %0D%0A%0D%0APoint of correction by the way%2C you do not exercise demons%2C you exorcise. More importantly%2C since you are neither an expert in demonism nor an authority in occultism%2C I urge you to desist from declaring demonic possession over anyone%2C especially Akinola. Stick to the issue.
29|18|27|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun%2CJason and myself.|Jason||23:51:58|03/20/2002|Faloye seemed so full of venom and hatred%28Jesus Christ would not approve%29%2C I could only conclude that demons have taken control of his soul%21%0D%0A%0D%0AHe accuses Muslims for all the evils in the world%21  That shows his bias and prejudice.
30|18|27|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun%2CJason and myself.|Jason||23:56:49|03/20/2002|He is not Nigerian%2C but Gaddafi criticized the Sudanese government%27s massacre%2Fenslavement of Southern Sudanese.  %0D%0A%0D%0AKing Mohammed of Morocco has said lack of education and miseducation has fueled terrorism%2C and it needs to be stopped with better education and better security.  Other Muslim leaders in other nations have spoken out about this.  No Gaga%2C I don%27t know of any cases in with Nigerian Muslim leadership have issues formal apologies.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut a number of Ibo christians and pagans apparently felt betrayed by the Yoruba christians and pagans.  Did the Yoruba formally apologize to the Ibo%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAgain%2C Muslims are no more violent than anyone else.
31|19|30|||||RE%3A To Akin Faloye|sholaz||17:09:44|03/22/2002|Akin%2Cquite some time but I am glad to be back on the beat.Let me first address the issue of the majority%2Fminorityissue that you raised.Azeeza might be a minority in her place but does the LAW prevent her from her dress code%3FIf the answer is no%2C then she has a case and comparing that with the zamfara example is missing the point.If the majority are able to use their numerical strength to get their wishes passed as a legitimate law%2Cthen it becomes binding and the goal rather should be how to abrogate such a law.There were thieves%2C adulterers in zamfara before the arrival of Sanni on the scene but we did not hear of people being beaten for drunkeness or stoning to death for adulterers but since he was able to incorporate it into the laws of the state it becomes binding since he is now covered by law so a majority supported by law will unfortunately have their way willy-nilly over the minority and it is a sad fact of life but in Azeeza%22s case I am not aware of any law that prevent her from her dress code.On the issue of arabic names%2Clanguage etc%2Cit might interest you to know that the fact that one reads the Quran in arabic does not mean that he can speak and understand arabic because the language of the Quran is archaic arabic.An Arab speaking person who does not study the Quran will not be able to read it even though he speaks arabic and a close example to this is like giving Shakespare books to children of today to read on their own you can imagine what the result will be.On names%2Ca distinction should also be made between islamic names and arabic names because they are different.Back home%2Chave you heard or know of muslims with names like fahd%2Cyasmin%2Cassad%2Csaeb%2C habash and even sadam%2C ghadafi and osama except people that wants to identify with them for their own reasons.All these names belongs to the arabs and are quite different from islamic names%2Cthe fact that the prophet was an arab does not mean that you can not separate islam from anything arabic so Akin please just have an OPEN MIND%21      
32|20|31|||||RE%3A To Akin Faloye|ewucanbeer||22:14:10|03/22/2002|As Sharia becomes illegal%2C what will this poor girl do. Stupid young woman. This case should be thrown out of court. Since when did the courts start deciding whether someone should obey her parents or not. Silly girl. She can wear all the burka she wants. 
36|20|31|||||To Sholaz|Akinola Faloye||17:01:44|03/25/2002|Sholaz%2C I welcome you back. Your points are well taken%2C even though they missed the target.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou wanted to know in your piece%2C if there is a LAW that PREVENTS Azeezah from wearing purdah. The answer is%3B IT DEPENDS. It depends on the LOCATION of Azeezah. But I guess the simple answer is that I am not aware of such a LAW%2C just as I am NOT aware of any LAW that prevents those non-moslem Nigerians in Zamfara from ENJOYING their inalienable RIGHTS%2C as enshrined in the so called CONSTITUTION of our Nation. But that fact did not prevent the butcher of Zamfara from violating their RIGHTS by introducing an Islamic LAW. To attempt to clarify this issue%2C let me give you an example.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you are an employee of a PRIVATE company in America%2C the LAW of that company MAY prevent you from HAVING a RELIGIOUS TEXT on your desk%21 However%2C if you are an employee of the FEDERAL government of USA%2C you MAY NOT be prevented from reading a RELIGIOUS TEXT while sitting at your desk. Such PREVENTION is considered a VIEWPOINT DISCRIMINATION under the LAW. There are other wrinkles to this argument%2C but let me stop here for now.%0D%0A%0D%0AI stated earlier that there are female moslems in Osun State who go around completely covered in PUBLIC. No one%2C to my knowledge%2C has ever CHALLENGED the RIGHT of those women to do so. However doing SO in a UNIVERSITY presents a totally different set of problems. For example%2C if Azeezah is allowed to attend lectures fully covered%2C the RIGHT as well as the DUTY of her professor to assess her understanding of the topic being taught%2C by GAZING at her eyes%2C will be hampered. Also%2C if Azeezah is allowed to get away with it%2C what is there to PREVENT adherents of other FAITHS from asking the UNIVERSITY for the INDULGENCE of OVERT EXPRESSIONS of their FAITHS%3F And if such is granted%2C then it will be OK for a RASTAFARIAN to SMOKE GANJA %28or marijuana%3B for the uninitiateds%29 while in a lecture hall full of students. Marijuana smoking is a religious expression for the Rastafarians%21%0D%0A%0D%0ANow%2C all of the above NOTwithstanding%2C let us deal with the issue of FAIRNESS. Is it FAIR for MAJORITY MOSLEMS in Zamfara and Sokoto etc%2C to DENY the MINORITIES amongst them the RULE of INDIVIDUALITY by introducing an all encompassing ISLAMIC LAW%2C while at the same time UPHOLDING the INDIVIDUAL RIGHT of a member of their FAITH in an ENVIRONMENT in which she is a MINORITY%3F I want you to bear in mind that PART of the Sharia Law introduced by the butcher of Zamfara%2C prevents FEMALES and MALES from mingling TOGETHER in PUBLIC. A female non-moslem in Zamfara can NOT even take a ride on a motorcycle owned by her BOYFRIEND. That is disgusting%21%21%21 In the light of that%2C why should Azeezah be allowed to FORCE the LAW of her FAITH on a NON-RELIGION ENTITY%2C like OAU%3F And also%2C if MAJORITY MOSLEMS FAILED to recognize the RIGHTS of INDIVIDUAL non-moslem minorities%2C why should the MAJORITY recognize the RIGHTS of a MOSLEM minority%3B like Azeezah%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AOn the issue of Arabic names for non-Arabic moslems%2C I don%27t believe that you quite understand what I wrote. Let%27s take the name Azeezah. What is the meaning of Azeezah in Yoruba%3F A Christian%2C for instance%2C can take on the name JOHN. That Christian name has its ROOT in the NEW TESTAMENT of the HOLY BIBLE%2C written in ORIGINAL CLASSIC GREEK. You will NOT however find ANY Greek called JOHN. You will INSTEAD find a Greek called YANNI%2C which means JOHN. But how many Yoruba Christians do you know with the name YANNI%3F It is not ONLY Arabic or QURANIC ARABIC UNTRANSLATED names that non-Arabic moslems give to their children%2C it is also the ARABIC CULTURE. Haven%27t you noticed how Northern Nigerian moslems%2C as well as some Yoruba moslems%2C dress%3F Their mode of dressing ACCURATELY reflects that of the Arabs%2C and NOT that of the ORIGINAL HAUSAS or Yorubas.%0D%0A%0D%0ASo you see sholaz%2C I am more open minded than you thought. For me%2C I will NEVER be satisfied UNTIL the day that there is a TOTAL AND COMPLETE SEPARATION OF STATE AND RELIGION IN NIGERIA%2C and my reason for that position is HISTORICAL. Moslems%2C let%27s ALL work together to CONDEMN the IMPOSITION of ANY RELIGIOUS LAW ON THE CITIZENS OF OUR NATION%21%21%21
37|21|36|||||RE%3A To Sholaz|jokiIrun||18:00:57|03/26/2002|  Akin%2C%0D%0A    To suggest that you are not open minded is a gross understatement.Your case is far worse than this description.I%27am however in want of the appropriate word to use to describe what the matter is with you.So let%27s just leave it at that.%0D%0A%0D%0A   What are we saying here and what are you saying%3FWe are talking of a mode of dressing favored by someone%2Ci mean a style relished by Azeezah.In otherwords%2Cthe way and manner in which she likes to appear in public and thus satisfy herself that she has dressed well.The way and only way in which she could enjoy her comfort and get on with whatever is going on in her environment%2Cincluding the proper assimilation of her lectures in the class room.And if i may ask%2Cwho is to determine whether he or she understands a lecture in the university%3FIs it the lecturer or the student%3FAnd if the lecturer must get so concerned%2Cwhen does %22GAZING at her eyes%22become the means of determining the rate of student%27s assimilation of lectures in the university%3FOr Akin%2Cdidn%27t you pass through the university system in Nigeria before you cross to this end of the cosmic%3FPlease tell us%2Cso we know where your problems lie exactly.We are talking of the way and only way the girl feels that she could appear to possibly enhance not just her aesthetic essence and thus make herself very lusciously appealing to her admirers as a young lady%2Cbut to also sanctify her spiritual well being%2Csuch that she may prevent sensual seduction and thus join others who dress to kill%2Cto promote sexual immorality%2Cfor which most of our universities are known.And here you are%2Cliking this virtue%2Cthis essence of life with such a magnanimous crime and such an unpardonable act of illegality as public consumption of HARD DRUG%21To wit%2Cthe smoking of indian hemp in the class room by adherents of Rastafarian.Where is the logic and where is the identity here%3FOr what do you think you are saying and how do you want people to behold you with this kind of conroversial reasoning%3FDon%27t you know that the use of hard drug%2Cincluding marijuanah is a crime in Nigeria%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A   The core of this talk is this%3AWas Azeezah%27s mode of dressing illegal%3FOr did it contravane any known law of the land%2Ceither substantivelly or procedurally.If no%2Cas i%27am quite sure it is%2Cthen it means that her tormentors and assailants had erred in their approach to the issue.Not only this%2Cthey had also infringed upon the rights of Azeezah and they had thus operated outside the precinct of the law of the land and so they are liable to both civil and criminal actions.They are thus at the mercy of Azeezah%2Cwho is well protected under the law to institute such actions.She resolved to exercise her rights under the law%2Can action quite typical of an educated and a refined mind in a lawful and civilized society like ours.And here we are%2Csome people are even condemning her.What then is the purpose of the law%3FIs it not for the civilised regulation of human conduct%2Csuch that we might be different from the untamed beasts in the jungle%2Cin our disposition to issues%3FHaba%21%0D%0A%0D%0A   You talk of FAIRNESS%2C and in your usual way of drawing illogical similitudes%2Cyou referred to Zamfara.We all know that democracy is a game of numbers in which the majority takes all.If the minority feels injured by the action of the majority in a democracy%2Clet such minority mount pressure%2C using the available legal instruements of the state%2Cto effect a change or ammendment of the offending situation.Simple%21 In any case%2C we are not talking of Zamfara State here%2Cbut OAU%2Clocated in ILE-IFE%2COsun State of the FEDERAL Republic of Ngeria.So There is nothing in common between the two locations as to warrant your muddling these things together in the amateurish way as you demonstrated.Then just see what you wrote %22Why should Azeeza be allowed to FORCE the law of her faith on NON-RELIGION entity like OAU%22%3FThe questions here are%3AWhich religious law are you talking about%3FI guess that you were referring to the mode of dressing of the girl%2Cwhich is obviously Islamic.In this case%2Chow did she %27FORCE%27the so called LAW on the NON-RELIGION entity like OAU%3FJust how%3Ftell me.Was it part of her prayers to the court that it should sanction all the OAU students to dress that way%3FDid she send a bill to the Osun State house of Assembly through her accredited representative%2Cto the effect that the law should be made that all tertiary institutions in the State should henceforth take to her chosen mode of dressing%3FDid she advise the University Authorities in like manner%3FNo%2CJust tell me how she %22FORCED the law of her faith%22 on others in that University.I%27am waiting to know this.And by the way%2Cif some elements in the institution or even outside of it%2C did not take kindly to her mode of dressing%2C would you endorse the alleged appraoch of her defendants in this case as a means of redressing the situation%3FHen answer me Akin%2Cso i know where to actually place you in my own reconning.%0D%0A%0D%0A   Next time%2Cmay be tomorrow%2CGod%27s willing%2Ci%27ll talk about dressing in general and as far as it concerns religion%2Crace%2Cindividual and group.Let me not bore you with a long essay.However%2Cdo not forget to answer my questions as best as you can.See you then%2Cbye for now%2Cremain Blessed and enjoy. %0D%0A%0D%0A      
43|22|37|||||RE%3A To Sholaz%3ATo Faloye|myself||01:37:50|03/27/2002|I believe that Joki has articulated my thoughts perfectly.Your reasoning about Azeeza%27s case is still beyond me though.%0D%0AAnd your call for moslems to come together with you to condemn the imposition of any religios law in the state sounds very hipocritical to me%2C how do you work together with you people that you hate and what they stand for%2C and in your case what difference would it make%3Fif i have to fight anything or condemn anything because you want me to or for people like you i will never do it.%0D%0AI want to go back to the issue you raised previuosly about  islam targetting people of other faiths for physical attacks.%0D%0AFirst of all i want you to remember that whoever commits artrocity in the name of a religion finds justification for doing so%2C be it in christainity or in islam.The anti semites could find justification in the bible for thier actions although the justification is subject to interpretation.%0D%0AYOU see in the time when those verses were released the moslems were having a hard time being accepted by the christains%2C the jews and the pagans of the time%2Cthey left the city of mecca%2Cwhen the attacks against them did not stop just at ridicules%2C but it involved them being attacked for practising their religion by stoning%2C they left mecca and went to Medina and some neighbouring cities where the people were more tolerant towards them.The people of mecca started sending emisaries to the leaders of those cities to still instigate the general public against the moslems.Now i need you to understand that they were being attacked solely for the reason of their faith.It was becoming unbearable%2Cso they were allowed to fight those antagonists who happen to be christains%2C jews or Pagans.They were not told to just get up  and attack one day%2C it was as a result of a cummulative occcurences which i do not think i would want to get in to right now.And even then it was allowed in self defence%2C and there are several rules of engagements in islam.YOU see islam is a complete faith%2Ca complete way of life%2Ctherefore in every aspect of life you find in islam rules and regulation about how to go about it eg%2C dealings with your neighbours%2C what is and what is not allowed in trading%2C eating habits%2C and of course wars to maention a few.I know in an ideal world there should be no wars%2C but we live in a real world%2C and the truth is there are wars and there will be wars.%0D%0ANow in case you think those verses is confined to the times of the prophet%2C in that case i will say it depends on which side you are looking at things%2C i will say terroris attacks on people is not justified in islam.But if i as a moslem is under physical attack from you Faloye a christain for the simple reason that i am a moslem or tha i practise islam%2Ci will defend my self and my faith and if either of us gets killed in the process%2C then so be it.%0D%0ABut i am not telling you anything new%2C as you would have read the explanations behind those verses but choose to conveniently ignore them.%0D%0ABy insisting on the fact that islam preaches violence you seem to be justifying the actions of a few violent people%2C how is that supposed to help combat violence in general%3F or are you just saying that to discourage people from joining the faith and there by intensifying the dislike of the moslems and islam in general%3F%0D%0AYour actions initally seem to suggest that you are speaking out against injustice%2C but now i am not so sure%2C as if violence is perpetrated by a non moslem you seem to find an excuse for it. 
40|21|36|||||RE%3A To Sholaz|Jason||22:47:07|03/26/2002|Akinola Faloye%2C I have never heard of any law in the US preventing anyone from having a religious text on his or her desk.  There is no such law%2C and if I went out during lunch break%2C purchased a quran%2C bible%2C or any religious text%2C placed it on my desk and an employer gave me a hard time%2C I would sue the company on the basis of religious discrimination%21%0D%0A%0D%0ABy the way%2C in regards to an instructor needing to look a student in the eyes%2C that is complete garbage . Some students have takne classes via independant study or distance learning%2C where ne only occassionly meets wit the professor.%28that%27s if he meets with them%29.  Universities also provide accomdations for blind students%28they can hear the professor lecturing and they can type%29.%0D%0A%0D%0ASince there is apparently no law saying Azeeza can not wear a purdah%2C what university did was wrong.  She is writing to sue them parents for barbaric behavior.   Whoever heard of someone pulling off someone%27s clothes like that and beating theem%3F  her parents should be imprisioned.%0D%0A%0D%0AI hope she wins money from the university.  As long as are clothed%2C universities hear in the US do not carew what students wear.  I%27ve know women who wore purdahs in the US%2C it harms no one.  As for the Rastarfarians possibly wanting to smoke weed%2C that has nothing to do with allowing people to dress please.  If drugs are illegal%2C then are illegal everywhere.  It is not up for the university or a private company to make up their own rules regarding these things%2C that is why we have governments to make the laws.
39|20|31|||||RE%3A To Akin Faloye|Jason||20:10:51|03/26/2002|According to the BBC and the New York Times%2C the legal books and government books in Northern Nigeria are written in Arabic%2C and that also the verdicit of Safiya Husseini was also given in Arabic. Some people had to translate the verdict to Ms. Husseini.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow%2C the Hausa language is in the Afro-Asiatic family%2C Akinola%2C which plays it in the same family of languages with Arabic%2C Hebrew%2C Somali%2C Amharic%28of Ethiopia%29%2C etc.  As for style of dress%2C the Muslim clothes are desert clothes%2C so the Hausa probably always had similiarities in clothing with the Arabs.%0D%0A%0D%0AI do agree with Faloye when he said there really isn%27t away to seperate Arabic culture from Islam%2C and as Islam spread%2C so too did Arabic language.  Which continues today%2C as more African countries impliment some form of shariah.  it clear%2C the thinking is Muslims should all learn Arabic not only learn the Qur%27an but to speak amonst themselves.
34|1|0|||||Moslem Apologies|afarikorodo||00:43:24|03/23/2002|Jason%2C%0D%0A%0D%0AI have wondered about this Moslem Phenomenon%2C where they troup out of the Mosque %28after Friday prayers%29 and go murder somebody.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Yorubas did not actualy slaughter Ibos%2C even if Ibos felt betrayed. %28And remember the Yorubas were split into the Akintola and Awolowo camps%2C Awolowo is the one being accused%2C but unfortunately he is too dead to answer questions now%29.There are still Yorubas today who hate Awolowo.%0D%0A%0D%0A The Moslems on the other hand have openly killed%2C and continue to kill. So apolopgies and change are in order.
35|2|34|||||RE%3A Moslem Apologies|patdozie||17:01:56|03/23/2002|It is really news to hear that the lady took her parents to court. There are so many factors that could have led her going this far.%0D%0AAs Akinola stated%2C she could have been influenced and the case sponsored by some other people %28 But what kind of negative name do they want to make%29. If this is the case%2C the lady herself is not worthy of being called an undergraduate. Does she know the kind of image this will leave on her%3F%0D%0ALets take a look at the family. What kind of training did her parent give her to give her the courage to sue them to court. Everybody%27s action is guarded by his%2Fher up-bringing. If a parent cannot train and tutor their kids when they need to then what they face as a result they should face alone.%0D%0AI believe a girl of that age should be able to choose her mode of dressing but don%27t forget our African values.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnother question I would have loved to ask the lady in question is %22Why did she not take her parents to the sharia court since the issue is islamic%3F%22%0D%0A%0D%0AI am strongly against the lady for taking her parents to court and also against the parents for letting this issue to have come this far.%0D%0AEvery tribe in Nigeria has their values to cherish. I don%27t want to belief that kind of action%2Fattitude is such a cherishable one.
38|1|0|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|ode_eshi||19:45:35|03/26/2002|Akinola Faloye is a very dedicated christian. i have noticed how she always responds with zeal whenever it concerns islam. Please i have a question%2C are yorubas mainly cristians or moslems because they hold the edge over the population of christians to moslems in nigeria. if thier majority is christians%2C then the majority of nigerians are christians%2C else the majority of nigerians are moslems.
41|2|38|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|Jason||23:37:27|03/26/2002|Akinola Faloye is a he.  The Hausa are the biggest ethnic group in Nigeria.  They are 29%25 to the Yoruba 21%25.  The Muslims have a majority%2C as most of the Hausa are Muslim%2C and you do indeed have a significant number of Yoruba Muslims.  Christian and pagans tend to be fairly numberous in the South%2C while the North is predominately Muslim%2C which why you have shariah there.  Mind you%2C you do have Muslims amongst the Southern groups as well%2C as I have just mentioned.%0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t think the Nigerian government releases the exact number of people in a religion%2C due the turbulent politics in Nigeria.  So I %27d say until the Nigerian government publishes a website and palces it%27s own stats on it%2C I%27d cast doubt on any stats I see.
42|2|38|||||RE%3A Girl Sues Parents%2C VC  Over Islamic Dressing%21|myself||00:07:50|03/27/2002|Dozie%2C%0D%0AThere is no sharia law in IFE%21%0D%0AOde eshi%2C%0D%0Ai do not bleieve that Akinola Faloye is a %22she%22.And it is very difficult to know the majority faith in nigeria.But i will say that among the Yoruba%2C the christains are the majority.
44|3|42|||||Jason%2Cmyself%2CjokiIrun%2C%26Ode_Oshi.|Akinola Faloye||17:12:02|03/27/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-27-02 AT 05:15 PM (GMT+1)]I am very glad that I wrote something that got all of you out of your seats. I intend to respond to you all.%0D%0A%0D%0AFirst Jason. Here is a partial quote from one of your pieces%3A %22There is no such law...%22 This quote was in response to my statement that a PRIVATE ENTITY in America MAY prevent a person from reading a RELIGIOUS TEXT%2C but a GOVERNMENT ENTITY MAY NOT. I want you to go back and reread what I wrote. If you however%2C after rereading it%2C still believe that there is no such law%2C I may have to furnish you with literatures that will confirm what I wrote. I will also challenge you to attend a PRIVATE University%2C such as Fairleigh Dicknson University %28FDU%29%2C and insist on placing the Qur%27an on your desk during lecture. You will be shown the way out. City University of New York %28CUNY%29 may NOT however show you the way out for doing exactly the same thing. Jason%2C you must be NEW in America%21%0D%0A%0D%0AOn the issue of Azeezah%27s lecturer not being able to GAZE at her covered eyes in a lecture%2C you defended her by suggesting that VIRTUAL LEARNING denies lecturers the same opportunity%2C and I agreee with you. The question though is%3B why didn%27t Azeezah enroll in LONG DISTANCE LEARNING%3F If Azeezah was sitting in front of her computer monitor%2C in the comfort of her own home%2C fully covered%2C she will not be offending anybody. She will actually be doing what most of us want- KEEP YOUR RELIGION PERSONAL.%0D%0A%0D%0AOn the issue of population distribution in Nigeria%2C you gave the statistics that is often cited by enemies of progress. May I ask you the source of that 29%25 and 21%25 figures for Hausa and Yoruba respectively%3F The fact of the matter is the following%3A NIGERIANS DO NOT KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE LIVE IN THEIR COUNTRY%21 The Southerners have been trying for years to conduct an adequate and sensible NATIONAL CENSUS%2C but the BACKWARD NORTHERN MOSLEM LEADERS have always been a stumbling block. As Pa Adesanya said%2C it is unreasonable and illogical to assume that a Nation%27s population grows as one approaches the DESERT%21 I%2C like most Southerners%2C have been to the North%2C the entire North. What one tends to see is a cluster of huts in the middle of miles of sandy soil. What the North has is a lot of uninhabited lands. Canada is about ten times the size of Nigeria. Does it now follow that Canada has ten times the population of Nigeria%3F If the Northerners believe that they have higher population%2C they should let us do the REAL counting%2C and not just the FICTITIOUS counting of COWS and INNUMERABLE Yariyans%21%0D%0A%0D%0ATo myself. The Qur%27an expressly%2C coincisely%2C and unequivocally states that moslems should attack non-moslems %22whenever Islam is under attack%22. The problem is%2C the Qur%27an does not define %22attack%22. According to you moslems%2C the Qur%27an is for today%27s living. And if it is%2C then it follows that everything in it is up to date. And that then means that all those violent commentaries in the Qur%27an are as current as today%27s date. Is that fair enough%3F You claimed that the practitioners of ANTISEMITISM can justify their barbarism%2C using Biblical verses. To that I say that you are dead wrong%21 The RACE that CONVICTED and CRUCIFIED Jesus Christ is the Jewish race. And while Jesus Christ was being crucified%2C while He was hanging on the Cross%2C He interceded on behalf of those Jews by saying%3A %22 Father%2C forgive them for they know not what they do.%22 If Jesus could ask for forgiveness for the Jews that were mocking Him while on the Cross%2C what could possibly be the excuse for a Chritian to engage in ANTISEMITISM%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ATo jokiIrun. You wanted to know what the connection is between OAU and Zamfara. The connection is%3B both are in Nigeria. You also wanted me to tell you how Azeezah is trying to force her Islamic dress code on others%2C and I will tell you. I wrote earlier that OAU is NOT a religious entity. OAU is not a PRIVATE entity. OAU is a GOVERNMENT ENTITY%2C just as Zamfara is a part of FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF NIGERIA. OAU belongs to ME as a Nigerian just as much as Zamfara does%2C even though the butcher of Zamfara%2C and the other bastard moslems like Buhari%2C don%27t see it that way. I do not want to go to OAU and see%2C %28or not see%2C as in the case of Azeezah%29%2C a bunch of undergraduates dressed in foreign religious attires. Islam is NOT the ONLY faith in the world. Why is it that it is always the practice of this Islam%2C by its adherents%2C that seems to throw a monkey wrench in an otherwise orderly society%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AYou suggested that Azeezah was trying to be modest in her appearance. For whom was she trying to be modest%3F Modesty should be admired in everything. If Azeezah goes to school wearing a skirf on her head%2C an oversize skirt and blouse%2C no jewlries%2C no makeups%2C no high heels%3B I am sure that no one will complain%2C not even her parents. A lot of born again Christians dress that way in Lagos. If however%2C a religion forbids a woman from showing her face in public%2C in order to prevent her from being %22SEXY%22%2C one must then ask the question%3A whose interest are we protecting by keeping women completely covered up%3F It definitely can not be the interest of the women. And if it is for the interest of the men%2C why don%27t we blindfold the men instead%3F The same goal will be accomplished. So%2C why not moslems%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd on the issue of marijuana smoking by a practising Rastafarian%2C you wrote that marijuana is an illegal hard drug in Nigeria%2C and therefore can not be compared with the wearing of purdah. I submit to you that if a group of Nigerians are willing to go to court and PROVE that marijuana smoking is PART of the practice of their faith%2C the court will grant them a waiver. It is against the law to be cruel to animals in Nigeria. That is why we have organizations like SPCA. But that has NEVER prevented the OGUN worshippers from killing a dog by cutting it in halves%21 Don%27t you think that killing a dog in such a manner is cruel%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ATo Ode_Oshi. My response to you is already included in my response to Jason. The Northern Nigerian moslems don%27t like census. I guess it is against Islam or something%2C because anything modern and reasonable is always against Islam.%0D%0A%0D%0ATo you all moslems. I stated earlier that the Islamic Sharia law passed by the butcher of Zamfara prevents a non-moslem female from riding on her boy friend%27s motorcycle. Why didn%27t you moslems respond to that%3F I also asked you if you have ever seen a Christian Yoruba called Yanni. Have you%3F You moslems will never get it%2C you heve been sold a bill of goods%2C and the content is rotten%21
45|4|44|||||RE%3A Jason%2Cmyself%2CjokiIrun%2C%26Ode_Oshi.|Jason||05:54:10|03/28/2002|I attend a private university.  Student put posts about religious materials all the time in the student newspapers.  If some student was shown the door for putting a quran on his desk%2C there would be an outrage%2C protests%2C and lawsuits.%0D%0A%0D%0AA private company may not ban religious items on the desks of it%27s employees.  That would be religious discrimination%2C and the employee could sue the government.  Faloye%2C your understand of US law is disorted.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AFaloye%2C my understanding is that many countries like Nigeria do not have reliable statistcs on religion.  But many claim the Muslims have the majority in Nigeria%2C and the Hausa are the biggest ethnic group.  If it not true how did amass so muh power%2C enough to put the Nothern part of the country under sharia%3F  Even amongst the southerners there are some Muslims%2C who may not have the majority in the South but when added to the Northerners compromise the majority.  
46|5|45|||||To Jason.|Akinola Faloye||16:03:30|03/28/2002|Jason%2C do you see how you get facts missed up%3F Take a look at the second paragraph of your piece %2345 up there.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn that paragraph%2C you suggested that if a PRIVATE company violates the right of an individual%2C that individual may sue the GOVERNMENT. You can not punish the Government for the crime of a private entity.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf I have a small private company that proof reads the text of the Holy Bible%2C the U.S Government MAY NOT force me to hire a moslem to work in my company%2C no matter how much qualified a proof reader the moslem may be. The same is true in a Chinese owned restaurant. The government MAY NOT force the owner of a PRIVATELY owned Chinese restaurant%2C to employ an excellent Italian chef who does not speak or write Cantonese or Mandarin etc.%0D%0A%0D%0AFor this same reason%2C a moslem halal meat seller MAY NOT be forced to purchase beef derived from cows that were killed in an unIslamic way. He is free to do business ONLY with those companies that meet his religious objectives. But if that halal meat seller works for McDonald%27s in America%2C he MAY NOT force the management of the franchise that he works for%2C to set aside a COW to be killed in an Islamic way for his consumption. The management MAY choose to do so%2C but they are NOT LEGALLY OBLIGATED to do so%21%0D%0A%0D%0AI hope you now understand. But if you still do not%2C you%2C as a moslem%2C may want to get a job at a hog factory%2C and then refuse to work because your religion hates pigs. And if the owner of the hog factory gets rid of you%2C you may want to sue the government%21
49|6|46|||||RE%3A To Jason.|Jason||07:28:13|03/29/2002|Faloye%2C if you open up a small company that proofs the bible%2C the US government in theory can indeed force you to hire a Muslim.%0D%0A%0D%0AI meant to say that if a private company punished me for having a religious text on my desk%2C I can sue the company for discriminating against me on the basis off religion.
50|7|49|||||RE%3A To Jason.|AGSOBA69||13:03:03|03/29/2002|No%2C Jason%2C the government will not force you to hire someone who poses an apparent danger to your establishment.  You have to prove that of course.%0D%0A%0D%0AWould you hire a Pro-Lifer to work in an abortion clinic%3F  
47|5|45|||||RE%3A Jason%2Cmyself%2CjokiIrun%2C%26Ode_Oshi.|jokiIrun||17:29:57|03/28/2002|  Let me make a few comments on the issue of population distribution among the Nigerian Religions%2Csince this has also come to the fore%2Cin the course of this discussion.%0D%0A%0D%0A    Like some fellow discussants have rightly posited%2Cvirtually all Nigerian population census since 1963 have been visited with this jinx%2Ccalled %27Nigerian Factor%27 and as such%2Cnon of the exercises has been unanimously accepted by the entire populace.The only one that is widely accepted as authentic and free from controversy was that of pre independence head count held in 1953%2F54%2Cunder the auspices of the then colonial masters.No other census gave the religious distribution of Nigerian population except that one.As such%2C it has continued to serve as the only official basis for measuring which of the religions pool the highest number of Nigerians into its fold%2C to this day%21%0D%0A%0D%0A    Most of us were not born when that authentic census took place.For this reason%2Cthe only avenue left for us to learn from such an ephocal exercise%2Cis through documents%2Cpublic comments made by those people who not only witnessed the exercise%2Cbut also paticipated actively in its making and so on.In this respect%2Cmay i humbly serve you with the comments made by Chief Obafemi Awolowo on the census%2Cwhich comment i considered to be of utmost aptness and relevance to the issue now at hand.He%2Ci mean Awo the sage%2C said and i quote as follows%3A%22As we all know%2Cthere are about sixty million people living in Nigeria today.They are distributed over a comparatively vast area of 356%2C669 squre miles%2Cwhich is the size of the United Kingdom%2CFrance and Belgium put together.The 60 million people speak about 51 different languages.The controversial 1963 census does not give us the religious distribution of our%28Nigerian%29 population.But the 1953%2F54 census did%3Band the distribution then was 44%25 Moslem%2C22%25 Christian%2Cand 34%25others%22.%0D%0A%0D%0A   %22There is no doubt that a good number of those described as %27Others%27would have been proselytised into Islam or Christianity during the last 17 years.But the relative distribution of %28ratio%292%3A1%2Cas between Moslems and Christians%2Cis not likely to have been altered substantially in favour of Christians.In any case%2Cit is common knowledge that%2C at all times in Nigeria%2Cthere are many more Moslems than Christians.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A   Awo made the above quoted comments on Saturday 25th April%2C1970%2C at the forum of Fellowship of African Church ministers held at st.Paul%27s Anglican Catedral%27s vestry%2CBreadfruit%2CLagos.I have volunteered this information in order to clarify that the sage did not make the comments in Kano or Sokoto%2Cin the course of his many political campaigns%2Cso that no one may just wave it off as one of those rehtorics made by the politicians to win people%27s vote.The audience at the forum where the comments were made were all Christians ministers and Church officials. Awo himself as we all know%2C was a staunch Christian and so he  had only presented the case as he saw it %2Cor as it was then%2Cwhich case is also as it is today and so shall it be%2Cworld without end.Amen.%0D%0A%0D%0A  Concerning the religious distribution of population in Western Nigeria%2Cone can safely aver that it is 50%2F50 as between Moslems and Christians.No one will convince me to believe that there are more Christians amongst the indigins of Lagos State than there are Moslems.This is simply untrue.Thesame reality holds for Oyo%2COgun and Osun states.In Ekiti and Ondo States%2Cit is obvious that there are more Christians than Moslems therein%2Cmay be 30%25%2F50%25%2F20%25 in the case of Ekiti and 40%25%2F50%25%2F10%25 in that of Ondo%2Cin favour of Christianity. %28ie Moslem%2FChristian%2FOthers%29. In any case%2Cthere is hardly in any family in Yorubaland in which there would not be adhrents of both faiths%2Cor shall i say all faiths.It is therefore virtually impossible to nurse or hatch any inter religious conflict in Western Nigeria.We co-exist in harmony%2Cintermarry across the Religious lines%2Crejoice with each other in times of joy and also console one another in times of misfortune.Like myself%2Ci%27am married to a Christian and we did our wedding in the Church.However%2Cmy wife is now a very good Muslem like myself.Such is life in Yorubaland%2Cthe land of religious harmony%2Cunderstanding and lasting peace.Indeed%2C as far as religious tolerance is concerned%2Cthe world has a lot of lessons to learn from  Yoruba race%2Cespecially at this critical moment in the history of our world.See more of you people%2Ccheers and enjoy.  %0D%0A%0D%0A     
48|6|47|||||RE%3A Jason%2Cmyself%2CjokiIrun%2C%26Ode_Oshi.|Jason||07:26:17|03/29/2002|Well%2C some statistics posted say Nigeria has about 120 million people.  Most sources agree that Muslims have the majority%2C but it is hard to say the percentange.  Jokilrun%2C do you think Yorubaland will ever be under sharia like Hausaland%3F  I believe that is the true source of the hatred coming from Faloye%2C he is concerned sharia will spread to the South.%0D%0A%0D%0AI am not in Nigeria%2C so I don%27t know%2C but if Muslims truly have the majority I do think one day all Nigeria will be under sharia as Muslims clerics have called for people to vote for candidates who support sharia.  %0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s kind of interesting%2C as it appears the European colonialism merely interrupted the spread of Islam as a political force across Africa.  Now things seem to have picked up with a vengance%2C some like Faloye are concerned.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for me%2C my interest in these events is merely academic.  If things say as in regards to religion%2C fine%2C if Islam spreads across all Africa as I think it will one day%2C that is fine too.  I enjoy observing.
51|7|48|||||RE%3A Jason%2Cmyself%2CjokiIrun%2C%26Ode_Oshi.|AGSOBA69||13:16:51|03/29/2002|Jason%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AYou said the following of a clear and present danger ravaging my country%2C and you think your observer status exculpates you%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAs for me%2C my interest in these events is merely academic.  %0D%0A%3EIf things say as in regards to religion%2C fine%2C if Islam %0D%0A%3Espreads across all Africa as I think it will one day%2C that %0D%0A%3Eis fine too.  I enjoy observing.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou are equaly culpable if you simply stand by and watch atrocities being committed for any reason.%0D%0A%0D%0AFYI%2C Africa will never come under one religion%2C especially Islam%21  They are problems dealing with Nigeria as it is.  So%2C Dream on.%0D%0A
55|8|51|||||RE%3A Jason%2Cmyself%2CjokiIrun%2C%26Ode_Oshi.|Jason||20:59:33|03/29/2002|Well%2C if Africa will never come under one religion%2C then there is no danger to your country.  If it is possible for Islam to take over all Africa%2C then your country is in danger. I study history%2C and I simply see my role in life as an observer%2C to observe what develops next around the world.%0D%0A%0D%0AHowever %2Cwhen people are fuled by religion%2C never underestimate them.  Christianity overwhelmed Europe by way of conquest and forced conversion%2C Islam is determined to pick up where it left off after the interruption by European colonialism.
58|9|55|||||RE%3A Jason%2Cmyself%2CjokiIrun%2C%26Ode_Oshi.|AGSOBA69||06:09:40|03/30/2002|Jason%3A%0D%0A%0D%0ADo not be deluded into thinking that sitting on the fence%2C or ostrich posture%2C is any safe posture to assume when facing world situations.  You either take care of situation or situation will take care of you.  It is that simple%21%0D%0A
52|4|44|||||RE%3A Akin Faloye|sholaz||13:26:05|03/29/2002|Akin%2C I knew it would come always come to this %28i.e%29veering away from the posted topic into other topics but I will indulge you since I have committed myself by answering you on that earlier.Yes%2C muslim names do not change from the Quranic names because the Quran has sustained its arabic language to date hence it is there as a reference for name choosing by muslims and they all have meanings.You gave the example of John as a name by xtians even though Yanni is the equivalent in Greek language.Yes%2C people bear John and not Yanni because people that brought the religion to nigeria were english hence Yanni is irrelevant in their equation and please can you gove me the equivalent of John in Yoruba since that is part of the things you accused muslims of.The Britsh came to nigeria to give us western education and they taught us in ENGLISH%2C so why did they not teach us in our mother tongue%3FAkin%2Cthe vessel of Islam was an arab and the language was arabic and that is  one of the points of difference between muslims and xtians which is that since Christ came as a Jew%2Cwe would have loved to see what he said in the Hebrew language.On the issue of Zamfara%2Cthe nigeria media especially the southern press has been guilty of bias and prejudice in their reports of events in that place.Most of the things written about the place are outright lies because I can equivocally tell you that okada transportation thrives in that place and they do carry females and besides there are even no female okada riders%2Cso who would have carried the females%3FTo buttress my point%2C how many corp members have you heard rejecting their postings to zamfara this year on religious ground%3F so you better do not believe people that will sit down in Lagos and be writing on what is going on in Gusau.If you really want to know what is happening there%2Cask people that had gone there.Do have a happy easter and please do not let us digress from a posted topic%2Cif you have any topic agitating your mind you can post anew.  
53|5|52|||||To jokiIrun.|Akinola Faloye||16:31:03|03/29/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-02 AT 04:50 PM (GMT+1)]JokiIrun my brother%2C I want you to read this very carefully. You never believe ANYTHING that a CAREER POLITICIAN tells you%2C NEVER%21%0D%0AChief Obafemi Awolowo%2C may God rest his soul%2C was a career politician.%0D%0AWhen George Bush and Tony Blair told the world that Islam is a religion of peace%2C hijacked by some deranged moslems%2C did you believe them%3F If you believed them%2C then you must also believe that my father is WHITE%21 The statement of Chief Obafemi Awolowo that you quoted was a statement of POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY%21 If you want me to%2C I will explain what I mean by that. But for now%2C I am sticking with the issue.%0D%0A%0D%0AI am going to respond to all those FICTITIOUS numbers that Nigerian moslems like to come up with%2C in order for them to justify the IMPOSITION of barbaric and backward Islamic law on the general populace. The Sudan National Islamic Front did the same thing in Sudan. But before I do%2C let me ask you the following question%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AIf Nigerian moslems believe that they are HONESTLY in the MAJORITY%2C why do their leadership ALWAYS suffer transient ischemia%2C EVERYTIME the phrase%3B %22NATIONAL CENSUS%22 is mentioned%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ALet us all conduct a true%2C honest%2C accurate and transparent National Census in our country. When Nigerian moslems give percentages of Christians and moslems%2C they TEND to INFLATE their percentage by %22counting%22 all the RESIDENTS of the Middle Belt as moslems%2C and I am not being biased in favour of Christianity by that statement.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow to your numbers. The population distribution in Nigeria%2C according to you %28quoting Chief Obafemi Awolowo%29 in 1953%2F54%2C was 44%25 moslems%2C 22%25 Christians and 34%25 others. I completely disagree with those percentages%2C but I am willing to agree with their accuracy just for now. Now%2C any fair minded person knows that the Southerners constitute the vast majority of the %22OTHERS%22%2C and that is 34%25. Given the influence of the British and the American Missionaries in the South%2C especially in the South West%2C it is safe to assume that MOST of those %22OTHERS%22 became Christians%2C somewhere along the line. That is how my grandfather became a Christian. Now%2C let%27s get to the Easterners and the Mid-Westerners. Virtually all of them are Christians. They are not just Christians%2C they are Christians that believe in having a lot of children%2C who are also Christians. Take an average family in the East in those days%2C and some will argue in these days as well%2C the average number of children was 10. I have heard of a tale that a wife is honoured with ISI EWU after having 12 children%21 I say good for the Igbos. My mother has 11 for my father. I am from a family of 13%2C and we are all doing very well%2C thank you%21%0D%0A%0D%0AThe BULK of moslems in Nigeria are in the CORE NORTH. They are the remnants of the Hausas BUTCHERED into submission by the horse back riding%2C sword carrying%2C stinking Arab moslems%2C who ALSO attempted to FORCE the CULT of Islam on the Southerners. Thank GOD that my people were courageous enough to stop them%2C before it was too late. %0D%0A%0D%0AIn the South West%2C most known and practising animists go to Church. Some of them may not understand why%2C but they intuitively PREFER going to Church to going to Mosque. If you factor in the propagation of Western education in the South%2C which is a legacy of Christian missionaries%2C it is easy to see how the Christian population in Nigeria given as 22%25 in 1953%2C could easily have become 52.6%25 in 2002%2C which is the figure stated by an International organization. Here is the breakdown of the population distribution as stated by the organization%3A %0D%0A%0D%0AChristians----------52.61%25%0D%0AMoslems-------------41.00%25%0D%0ATraditional Ethnic-- 5.99%25%0D%0ANon-Religious%2Fothers-0.40%25%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen you consider the FACT that most Middle Belters%2C most South Westerners%2C most Mid Westerners%2C most deep Southerners and just about all Easterners are Christians%2C you will come to the only REASONABLE CONCLUSION that moslems just LOVE to overestimate their WORTH%21 In Nigeria%2C CHRISTIANS OUTNUMBER MOSLEMS%3B THAT IS A FACT%21 %0D%0A%0D%0ARolling along with your number game%2C you stated that the population distribution in Ekiti is 30%2F50%2F20 and that of Ondo is 40%2F50%2F10. May I ask you what those percentages refer to%3F I hope that you are not suggesting that 4 out of 10 people in Ondo are moslems. If you are%2C I need to tell you that you must be hallucinating%21 Let me know what those numbers represent.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhile you moslems are bent on overinflating your numbers%2C we Christians are bent on making you all prove it. Allow us to ACCURATELY count the people of our country%2C before you impose the disgusting Sharia on all of us%21%0D%0A%0D%0AYou moslems need to realize that your days of invading innocent Nations on the back of horses%2C killing them with your SWORDS if they refuse your Qur%27an%2C are OVER. The secret of your faith is out%3B it is VIOLENCE%2C and NOBODY wants it%21 I have asked you moslems a question a while ago now%2C and you are yet to answer it.%0D%0A%0D%0AName one country in the WORLD that VOLUNTARILY ACCEPTED ISLAM%2C the so called faith of peace%21 Just one country.
54|6|53|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun.|ode_eshi||17:19:21|03/29/2002|Chei%2C Chineke God. Akinola%2C you should be ordained the nigerian minister of christian defense. Maybe you should take up an office in saudi arabia%2C you will be able to convince the caliphate that islam is a cult. You are one tough christian diplomat%2C did you have a degree or is this simply out of irrational intelligence. you never cease to amaze me. keep it up.
61|7|54|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun.|JO||18:46:29|03/30/2002|Even though I do not always agree with his views%2C I have to doff my cap to him for the zeal with which he pursues his goal%2C his diligent research and articulate delivery.  I also believe that he is a decent chap.  I have come to enjoy this duel between Akinola and JokIrun and others whom I also respect because I believe it is an honest exchange of views%2C contrary to my initial impression.  I have personally learnt a lot from their exchanges and wish more of our disagreements were tackled this way.  Keep it up guys%21
56|6|53|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun.|Jason||21:26:21|03/29/2002|%0D%0AFrom all the stats we have in the West%2C Muslims are the majority in Nigeria presently.  Faloye talks about the growth of the Christian population%2C but UN stats say that Islam is the world%27s fastest growing religion.  Islam would have to be the biggest religon in Africa%2C they have the majority in the North%2C big populations in West and East Africa.  South Africa has the smallest population of Muslims.%28ie%2C SOuhern Africa is mostly Christian%29.  You have an exploside combinations were two meet in sufficient numbers%2C ie%2C the Sudan%2C Nigeria%2C etc.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for who has the majority in the Sudan it is the Muslims.  The yare 75%25 of the population.   According to the UN%2C on the year 2000. two million Southern Sudanese died in the jihad against this%2C this year an additional 1.5 million are risk due food insecurity%28this is taken from allafrica.com%29.  So if the Muslims weren%27t the majority%2C they definitely are now.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut religious fights between Muslims and Christians were not the only problems these nations such as the Sudan and Nigeria faced.  You also had ethnic hatreds as well. The Dinmka and the Nuer fought each other in a civil war at the same time the Muslims launched a jihad against them . They%28the Nuer and the Dinka%29 fought each other for 11 years while they were trying to fight the Muslims.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Southern Sudan is now lost%2C as the Muslims have taken over area after area%2C exploiting it for oils sales to China%2C Russia%2C etc . Now the US government wants better relations with the Sudan%2C as they now have a lot of %24%24%24%24%24%24.%0D%0A%0D%0AOh%2C and when the Christian%2Fanimist Ibo wanted independance%2C where they not betrayed by the Christian%2Fanimist Yoruba%3F  The South could have been seperate from the North%2C had not one group betrayed the other.  So if Southern Nigeria falls under sharia%2C which the Christians on this thread detest%2C wouldn%27t it be partly the fault of the Christian Yoruba%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ABy the way%2C according to what I read%2C the Hausa are 29%25 of Nigeria%2C the Yoruba 21%25 . So if the Hausa are mostly all Muslim%2C and if have any significant number of Yoruba Muslims%2C they cna easily have the majority in the country . One person on this forum named pathfinder claimed that out of 7 governors in Yorubaland%2C 4 are Muslim.  If this is the case%2C then it appears many Yoruba are Muslim.%0D%0A%0D%0ANigeria and the Sudan have another thing in common.  The government in Kartoum wanted water frm the South as live in a desert.  Other Arab governments gave the Sudanese money to put water from the South into the dry areas and dig canals.  The Southern Suadanese said no%2C this is our ancestral land.  So the Muslims declared a jihad on them.  The jihad increased when it was learned the Southern Sudan has a lot of oil.%0D%0A%0D%0ASo this was never really about religion per se%2C water and %24%24%24%24%24 were the primary reasons. Religion was merely used as a tool of conquest.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A
57|7|56|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun.|Jason||21:36:51|03/29/2002|This site says Yorubaland is 50%25 Muslim.  Assuming that%27s true%2C the Muslims have the majority i nthe country%2C because the Hausa-Fulani region is Muslim.%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.sibexlink.com.my%2FSibexlink%2Fcountryprofile%2Fnigeria%2Fnigr2.htm%0D%0A%0D%0AMusli mdistrubtion in Africa. %0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.islamicweb.com%2Fbegin%2Fafrica_islam.jpg
59|8|57|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun.|jokiIrun||10:25:16|03/30/2002|%0D%0A  Thank you very very much Jason for this loudable efforts of yours%2Cmay God continue to enrich your wisdom and knowledge%2Camen.Thank you also Akin%2Cmay God provides you with the courage to always accept the truth as the truth and to also develope the insight to know the enormous wisdom and strength embeded in the matured act of gracefully bowing to a superior arguement in a healthy discourse in good time%2Cbefore shamefully doing so belatedly%2Camen.I think that with the above %22Quad Erat Demonstrantum%22%28QED%29which was intelligently served on us by Jason%2Call equations relating to religious distribution in Nigeria should be seen to have been sufficiently and conclusively proven.The matter should therefore be brought to a close and put at rest.%27Abi%27%3F.%0D%0A%0D%0A   Today%2Ci like to make a few response to the question of foreign%2Freligious names%2Cwhich issue was also raised by Akin.My response is going to serve as a mere adjunct or an addendum to that of Sholaz%2Cwho has done justice to the matter and whose presentation on it is unfaultable.I had once written a sizeable piece on the importance of name giving amongst the yorubas%2Cwhen it was reported that someone%2Cbeing a Yoruba man in Ibadan%2C named his new son Osama Bin Laden%2Costensibly after the world%27s most wanted terror.I condemned that action in strong terms then and my reasons were well documented.%0D%0A%0D%0A   The issue at hand in this instance is different from the case of the Ibadan man.What we are dealing with now is the etymological evolution of religious names and their adaptation%2Cabsorption and localisation by the various traditions%2Ccultures and races through which they passed since time imemorial.I will like to use Yoruba land as a case study here.However%2Cit should be borne in mind that my analysis is not peculier to Yoruba land alone%2Cbut also all other cultures of the world.%0D%0A%0D%0A   When a typical Ekiti Roman catholic man calls such religious names as Bibiano%2CSisiano%2CKilodu%2CAtano%2CPati%2CAnosta%2CKile%2CJona%2CNata%2CImaanu%2Cetc%2Cetc.No Hebrew%2Cno Jew and no Roman man of thesame faith will possibly understand what he meant by those things.At best they may behold the Ekiti man as having been invoking some  of his ancestral gods%2Cwhose spirits have taken possession of him.But No%21the Ekiti man is only calling those names which his Roman counterpart will understand respectively as Vivian%2CSusan%2CClaudius%2CAthanacius%2CPatrick or Patricia%2CAnostasia%2CCletus%2CJonathan%2CNathaniel%2CEmmanuel%2Cetc%2Cetc.%21%0D%0A%0D%0A   When a proper Yoruba Muslem man calls such Islamic names as Sumola%2CLasisi or Laisi%2CBuremo%2CLamidi%2CMomodu%2CNuru%2CLati%2CKarimu%2CSeeba%2CRamotu%2CRuki%2CKudi%2CMoriamo%2Cetc%2Cetc.No Muslem from a different background would possibly understand what he meant.But the fact remains that the Yorubaman is referring respectively to such names as Isma%27il%2CAbdul-Azeez%2CIbrahim%2CAbdul-Hamid%2CMuhammed%2CNurdeen%2CAbdul-Lateef%2CAbdul-Kareem%2CSuwaebat%2CRamotul-Lah%2CRukiyat%2CKudrat%2CMaryam etc%2Cetc.%0D%0A%0D%0A   Religionists%2Cbe they Christians%2CJews or Moslem or any other religion for that matter%2Care fond of identifying with their faith by vartious means%2Cformost of which is this idea of naming.Like every borrowed or adapted idea or culture%2Cforeign names get localised%2Ccorrupted and indigenised by the various traditions they pass through.However%2Ctheir meanings and relevance remains  indissoluble%2Cindestructible and as sancrosanct as ever.In my own view%2Cthis is the most important factor in these polyglot of linguistic transformations of these religious names%2Cthan any other ulteriosly or obscuredly motivated findings%2Cthe type of which Akin appears to be driving at.Well%2Cit is up to him.See more of you gents%2Chave a wonderful Easter holidays%2CGod bless%2CEnjoy yourself.   %0D%0A%0D%0A   
60|9|59|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun.|Akinola Faloye||17:07:03|03/30/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-02 AT 06:16 PM (GMT+1)]Jason%2C you keep saying that you are NOT a moslem%2C but I am sure that one of these days you are going to have enough courage to declare to the world that you are INDEED a moslem.%0D%0A%0D%0AWe are discussing the population distribution in Nigeria%2C and you are  discussing the growth of Islam in the world. Ninety five percent %2895%25%29 of the so called GROWTH of Islam in the world is due to UNCHECKED procreation of moslems%2C as well as INDISCRIMINATE killings of non-moslems by moslems. An average Saudi male moslem has three legal wives. An average wife gives birth to five children. This same phenomenon is true in Niger%2C whose children almost overran Lagos begging for alms in the eighties. It is also true in Sudan%2C the largest African country%2C Libya%2C Morocco%2C Mauritania%2C Pakistan%2C Qatar%2C Oman%2C Somalia%2C Iraq%2C Kuwait%2C among many others.%0D%0A%0D%0ATwo million Southern Sudanese did not die in Sudan as you claimed%2C Jason. TWO MILLION Southern Sudanese Christians WERE MURDERED by the MOSLEMS%21 If the moslems CAN NOT INCREASE their percentage by FORCING Christians to convert to Islam%2C they ALWAYS DECREASE the percentage of world Christians by MURDERING innocent Christians%21%0D%0A%0D%0AI stated in my piece that if the moslems in Nigeria BELIEVE that they are in the MAJORITY%2C why are they AFRAID of National Census%3F All you moslems didn%27t even touch on that. Why not%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd if you moslems know for a fact that there is NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD%2C that voluntarily accepted Islam as a faith%2C why don%27t you say so%3F Or you can tell us those stories about how Islam was spread through TRADING%21%21%21%0D%0A%0D%0AJason%2C you blamed the Yorubas for the failure of the Igbos to secede. Frankly%2C I wish that the Yorubas would have fought along side the Igbo people to utterly destroy the Hausa%2FFulani oligarchy. But you have to remember that the number one person in the country that time was a CHRISTIAN from the so called NORTH. If I were around then%2C and knew what I know now%2C I would personally have fought with the Igbo people. But you have to bear in mind  that I am a very MEAN person%2C and I don%27t believe in %22No victor no vanquished%22 philosophy. When you go to war%2C you go to war to emerge victorious. The purpose of going to war is to decimate your opponents by KILLING them. Having said all of that%2C you will have to give GREAT RESPECT to the Yoruba people for INSISTING THEN%2C that the UNITY of our NATION was of PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE. If Nigeria falls apart tomorrow%2C no one will be able to blame the Yorubas for NOT going the distance to keep all of us together. There is NO  TRIBE in Nigeria%2C other than the YORUBA TRIBE%2C that has SACRIFICED more of its SONS and DAUGHTERS in PEACE TIME and WAR TIME for the UNITY of that country%21 I have in the past described the Yoruba people%2C on this site%2C as the GLUE that is holding that Nation together. Of course%2C the Hausas and the Fulanis%2C consider such chracterization of the Yorubas as yet another evidence of the Yorubas sanctimonious pomposity. But what can I tell you%2C other than to say that facts are facts%2C even if you don%27t like them.%0D%0A%0D%0AJason%2C you suggested that the reason for all the pieces written by the Christians on this site pertaining to Sharia is our fear of the introduction of Sharia in the South. First there is no possibility of that%2C because even the Dr. Adegbites and the tiny toon Arisekolas know that%2C that will be the last straw%21 If that is what you believe though%2C then you have NOT been reading those pieces between lines. As struggling a Christian as I am%2C I WILL NOT play ball with Reverend Okogie in Nigeria%2C if he suggests the introduction of Canon law for all Southern States. I do not think that you moslems really get it. Religious laws%2C like man-made laws%2C are open to personal human interpretations. If Religious laws are CONSIDERED DIVINE by nature%2C then their application must be DIVINE. That means that only the Divinity responsible for those laws can accurately apply those laws consistently to all people equally. Human laws%2C in human hands%2C are subjected to gross misapplication as it is%2C adding Divine laws can only complicate the situation%2C as we all saw in the case of Safiyat%21 %0D%0AI know what the Holy Bible says about adultery. But if I%2C as a struggling Christian%2C decide to violate that law%2C EVEN IF IT IS NOT A VIOLATION OF THE LAW OF MY NATION%2C I will STILL be subjected to the PUNISHMENT spelt out in the Holy Bible%2C PROVIDED I still have FAITH in that Religion. So%2C in a way%2C GOD is already APPLYING that law%2C and I am already receiving the PUNISHMENT by virtue of my FAITH in my RELIGION%2C even if that punishment is not visible to the naked eye. %0D%0A%0D%0AYou stated that four out of seven governors in the South West are moslems. And from that you deduced that there must have been a higher moslem percentage in the South West. Are you an agent of the tall- for-nothing Buhari%3F Yorubas do not vote along the line of RELIGIONS. They are way more sophisticated than that. It is moslem leaders in the North who urge their people%2C or is it their sheep%2C NOT to vote for a non-moslem candidate. And I can understand where they are coming from%2C because I know that Islam ENCOURAGES TOTALITARIANISM%21 %0D%0A%0D%0AIf Nigeria breaks apart today%2C the people that will take the blame for it will be the intolerant Northern moslems%2C who believe wholeheartedly that for them to be ruled by the infidel Southern Christians%2C%28 or even  some Southern moslems%2C who are not moslems enough%29%2C is a sign that Allah is UNHAPPY with them%21%0D%0A%0D%0AIN THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF NIGERIA%2C CHRISTIANS ARE THE MAJORITY. And if the moslems don%27t believe so%2C they should allow us to count all of us%2C in a way that shall eliminate all doubts%3B and that is%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AAll the hajiyas must come out of their cocoons to be counted%2C and no cows need to apply%21
62|10|60|||||RE%3A To jokiIrun.|Jason||23:12:02|03/30/2002|Faloye%2C if there is no possibility of the introduction of sharia in the South%2C then why do care about Northern Nigerian being under sharia%3F  And if you have 4 out of 7 Muslim governors%2C to me that suggests the possibility of sharia in the Southwest.  %0D%0A%0D%0AWe will really know next in 2003%2C when elections come whether the South will fall under sharia.  However%2C one need only look at the Sudan to draw possible parallels.  Do you fear the situation i nthe Sudan will repeat itself in Nigeria%3F  If so then understand your concern about sharia.  If you do not think it could happen%2C then you should not worry about sharia in the North%2C Islamic law is a part of the Hausa-Fulani culture.  They have every right ot want people ot be under Islamic law%2C since that is their religion.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd as said%2C this still fault of the Yoruba Christians and animists who had the chance to succeed from Nigeria but opted not to%2C and instead fought against the Ibo people.  This is called blo back.%0D%0A%0D%0ABy the way%2C some Southern Sudanese have switched sides and betrayed their own people.  A Sudanese woan was sold to the Muslims as a sex slave when her the generals from her own people switched sides to the Muslims.  Some Southern Sudanese have gone far as to join the military.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn an all out war%2C would some Yorubas betray their own people to the Hausa%2FFualni North%3F  Some Muslims probably would%2C but some Christians and pagans would as well.  This is happenned and continues to happen in Africa%2C which is over the centuries the animists and Christians have fallen back before the Muslim Onslaught.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd we know Yorubas were guilty of treachery when dealing with the Ibos.%0D%0A
63|11|62|||||RE%3A Jason|ewucanbeer||04:31:44|03/31/2002|The problem we have with Sharia is that when it is a state law it creates a double standard for citizens of the same nation. If sharia continues to be practiced as it was prior to 1999%2C people will not have an issue. 
64|12|63|||||RE%3A Jason|Jason||05:28:42|03/31/2002|But what if most people in a state%28Zamfara%29 want sharia%3F  Then sharia should be the state law there. If most people in your state do not want sharia%2C then you have nothing to worry about.%0D%0A%0D%0APart of this problem is Nigeria is an artificial enter.  The Hausa%2FFulani have had sharia as state law until the British broke their nation and then lumped then in together with the Yorubas and Ibos.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt may be better to break the nation up%2C or else you may end with all out war like the Sudan.  Since sharia is a part of their history%2C law%2C and culture%2C there is absolutely no reason the Hausa-Fulani should not restore what is rightfully theirs.  And they have done so.%0D%0A%0D%0A
65|13|64|||||RE%3A Jason|myself||09:52:51|03/31/2002|I have answered your question about %22violence%22 in islam%2C i see you yourself believe that laws are subject to interpretation%2C so you see the bible and the quran will be subject to individual interpretation and there is nothing any one can do about it.%0D%0AAbout the north%2C from what you have written you have NEVER been to the north and you dreamed it up.All those desert you are talking about sounds like some barren land just lying there%2C half populated with people and sheep.Do visit the north on your next visit to nigeria%2C and i promise not to point you out as an islamaphobic so you don%27t get killed as is customary of %22moslems%22....violence.%0D%0AAbout nigerian population%2C if you come from a nuclear family%2Cand you are 11 kids from same mum%2C the moslems are allowed 4 wives%2C would that not be times 4%2C my mum has 11 kids%2C my dad has 4 wives%2C so deduce for your self%2C what the population of the north will be.The census or the counting of people does not sit well for the northerners as most people do not understand the significance%2C but i remember alot of education  and enlightenment that went on during the voter%27s registeration that took place in nigeria some few years back%2C i took part as an officer and people came out in droves%2C and provison was made for the house wives to be registered by women inside their homes i am sure if the same measures was taken next time for a census it will be successfull%2C to get them to agree to  a census is not up to them%2C it is up to the few politicians who make the decisions%2C albeit selfish ones most of the times.%0D%0AAs for the question of islam being embraced peacefully%2Ci suspect that you have done some SELECTIVE research on this issue and you are dying to duell on it with some one%2C i do not know much about the violent history of the spread of islam as is your obsession%2C as i beleive all the wars were fought for freedom%2Cto allow the moslems to live to practise their religion%2C but i do remember that the prophet was embraced peacefully in Medina%2Cafter being driven out of mecca the land of his birth.%0D%0AAnd Jason just articulated my thoughts about you %2C you are not just islamaphobic%2C you are scared of moslems and anything islam.Let me tell you a secret%2C it is that fear that those violent %22moslems%22 feed upon%2C when they are dealing with the likes of you%2C the sound %22Allahu Akbar%22 makes your heart palpitate does it not%3F%0D%0ABy the way people like Buhari do not need to preach to me not to vote some one who is non moslem%2C as i will never vote  anyone like you into office.But i will never know will i%3F
66|14|65|||||RE%25 Previous message adressed to Faloye|myself||09:55:35|03/31/2002|Previous message meant for Faloye.
68|13|64|||||RE%3A Jason|ode_eshi||05:24:19|04/01/2002|Jason%2C you have a point here%2C i have lived in the north and i know islam is not as bad as most people think but worries me is the violent part of it. The proclamation %22Allahu Akbar%22 means God is Great. Why do most moslems repeat that slogan while carrying out violent activities. Example%2C most suicide bombers before they explode%2C do mouth this slogan%2C the airplane hijackers mouthed this slogan and there are numerous cases of this. If God is Great of which i strongly believe%2C and command that his name be not used in vain%2C why do moslems pair his name with violence. Please im not trying to be sarcastic%2C only that i have tried to find a rationale behind this.
69|14|68|||||RE%3A Jason|Jason||05:38:18|04/01/2002|Well%2C if you look at the Old Testament of the bible%28you don%27t even have to read the Qur%27an%29%2C you%27ll have your answer . God told his followers to basically kill the unbeleivers.  In the Old Testament%2C God told the Hebrews to massacre the Philistines and take their land.%0D%0A%0D%0AChristianity has had a violent part to it as well%2C the Roman Empire%2C when Christianity became a state religion%2C forced people to convert.  Basically%2C religion often gets interwined inseperably with politics%2C and that%27s what leads to violent part of religion.%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso economic factors are there.  Europe had massive poverty%2C and that is why poor Europeans were happy to get the Americans and kill of the Native Americans . They said God wanted them conquoer non Christian savages%2C but it was just a tool . Likewise%2C as the deserts and savannhas inhabited by Muslims get overpopulated due a rising population%2C they declare jihad in places like the Sudan and push further South into fertile land.%0D%0A%0D%0AOf Course %2Cthe southern Sudan%2C in addtion to having plenty of water%2C also has a whole lot of oil.  Similiar to Nigeria%2C only the Northenr Sudan has the coast %2Cand capital is in the North.%0D%0A%0D%0ABasically%2C it%27s cruel human nature and fact we have finite resources on earth that causes problems.
74|13|64|||||RE%3A Jason|ewucanbeer||15:02:11|04/02/2002|A state in a nation cannot have a law that is not in congrous with the federal law. For example teh state Missisippi would not make discrimination legal in their state while US law does not.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf what you are saying about sharia is true. The fact of the matter remains that if you want to live with someone%2C you need to compromise on some issue. Remember the rest of Nigeria is forcing the hausa-fulani to stay.%0D%0A%0D%0A
67|10|60|||||RE%3A To Akin Faloye|sholaz||12:30:49|03/31/2002|Akin%2Cyou keep  harping that your questions are not answered even %0D%0Awhen they had been answered by other people on this forum.I for one did answer the questions you asked and even posed my own question which has not been answered.So%2C when has our inability to have an accurate census become a religious matter%3F Methink%2Cit is more of a geo- political reason rather than a religious reason and if you do not believe%2C you can ask your fellow xtians in the north what they feel about census and you will discover that you might have conflicting views about it.On the issue of the spread of Islam%2Cyou are too obssessed with your %22violence theory%22 to even reflect deeply.For starters%2CIslam preceded xtianity in yorubaland and like you wrote the %27jihadists%27were checkmated before they made an incursion into yorubaland%2Cso how did Islam get to yorubaland%3FContemporarily%2CIslam is spreading steadily in the U.S and Europe%2Cand is it through violence%3FIf there were wars fought during the early stages of Islam%2Cthey were fought primarily for their right to live and in self defence.At no time in history has muslims initiated a war or an aggresion on any set of people%2Cif wars were fought%2Cthey were reactionary and I challenge you to give an instance%0D%0Awhen Muslims had started an aggresion.On the isssue of poulation distribution vis a vis religions%2Csince we do not have an accurate census and besides things like religion and tribe are even excluded when they carried out census exercise%28I do not know why%29one can only have guesstimates of population distribution along religious lines.All I know is that when we look at the 6 geo-political structure of the country%2Cthe north east and northwest are dominantly muslims%2Csouth-south and south east are dominantly xtians%2Cand the southwest and north central are too close to call so laying claim to numerical superiority by any of the 2 faiths is not factual.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A
70|11|67|||||RE%3A To Ode eshi|myself||07:36:47|04/01/2002|I disagree with Jason%27s answer on that chant of %22Allahu Akbar%27 before committing a violent act.Yes you will find %22indications of violence%22 in the old testament and also in the Quran%2C but as far as i know in the Quran it was for the purpose of self defence.%0D%0Ayou see becase islam is a complete way of life%2C everything we do has a conotation of our religion in it%2C and i am afraid even when people do bad things they still call the name of Allah%2C but that does not mean that it is sactioned by  Islam or Allah.A lot of atrocities has been comitted and well documented in the name of religion%2C i doubt there is anything any one can do about it.%0D%0Ayou have been to the north and thank God for that%2C and i guess you must have met some other moslems not necessarily from the north%2C it is particularly annoying that these people  are not violent and are moslems but continue to be judged by the actions of a few that happen to be violent.%0D%0AI urge you to try and read the so called Quran with the explanation and you will see what we mean when we say  the religion is  about violence%2Cof course it is up to you.%0D%0A%0D%0ATo Sholaz%2C%0D%0AI think it is a well documented case that Faloye ignores answers to his questions%2C and continue to draw attention to the facts that we do not have an answer to his questions%2C luckily i know a lot of people that read our numerous exchanges are very intelligent to know what to conclude personnaly.%0D%0AIt is the fact that there is no compulsion in religion that you find in the Holy Quran%2C that makes it baseless to force any one into islam%2Cmost certainly not by wars%2C but we are very passionate about being allowed to practise our religion%2C and we will fight to protect that right.%0D%0A
71|12|70|||||RE%3A To Ode eshi|ode_eshi||16:16:38|04/01/2002|%3EI disagree with Jason%27s answer on that chant of %22Allahu %0D%0A%3EAkbar%27 before committing a violent act.Yes you will find %0D%0A%3E%22indications of violence%22 in the old testament and also in %0D%0A%3Ethe Quran%2C but as far as i know in the Quran it was for the %0D%0A%3Epurpose of self defence. %0D%0A%3Eyou see becase islam is a complete way of life%2C everything %0D%0A%3Ewe do has a conotation of our religion in it%2C and i am %0D%0A%3Eafraid even when people do bad things they still call the %0D%0A%3Ename of Allah%2C but that does not mean that it is sactioned %0D%0A%3Eby  Islam or Allah.A lot of atrocities has been comitted and %0D%0A%3Ewell documented in the name of religion%2C i doubt there is %0D%0A%3Eanything any one can do about it. %0D%0A%3Eyou have been to the north and thank God for that%2C and i %0D%0A%3Eguess you must have met some other moslems not necessarily %0D%0A%3Efrom the north%2C it is particularly annoying that these %0D%0A%3Epeople  are not violent and are moslems but continue to be %0D%0A%3Ejudged by the actions of a few that happen to be violent. %0D%0A%3EI urge you to try and read the so called Quran with the %0D%0A%3Eexplanation and you will see what we mean when we say  the %0D%0A%3Ereligion is  about violence%2Cof course it is up to you. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ASholaz%2C lets veer away from the old testament and the Quran which was written thousands of years ago and talk of the present. As far as God is involved%2C i dont believe that there should be any violence involved in religion. the new testament is a modification of the old testament and that is what most christians adhere to. The new testament does not preach an eye for an eye or violence%2C it preaches peace. in the quran%2C moslems are urged to kill unbelievers%2C mind you%2C in the present world%2C that is cold blooded murder. As times have changed and the perceptions of man about religion has also changed%2C isnt it wise that the quran be recompiled to fit the present time or should all moslems go about killing unbelievers because a mortal gave the command some thousands of years ago..
72|12|70|||||To all moslem History buffs.|Akinola Faloye||17:04:27|04/01/2002|I believe it was Sholaz and Mr.myself that wrote that my questions have been answered. May be I missed the answers in your pieces. Can you please refer me to where those answers are located within your pieces%3F The first question that I asked you moslems is the following%3A%0D%0A%0D%0ANAME ONE COUNTRY IN THE WHOLE WORLD THAT PEACEFULLY VOLUNTARILY ACCEPTED ISLAM%2C A FAITH OF %22PEACE%22%2C AS A NATIONAL FAITH. JUST ONE COUNTRY%21%21%21%0D%0A%0D%0AMoslems%2C please let me know where the answer is located. I am dying to read it%21%0D%0A%0D%0AOne of you moslems wrote that Christianity%2C at the hands of the Roman Empire%2C was used as an instrument of terror. This is one of the Historical reasons why I believe that Religion and State should be separated. Jesus Christ is very CLEAR about this issue. He tells His followers that His Kingdom IS NOT of this WORLD. But if you understand your History%2C you have to remember that the Roman Empire%2C after its persecution of Christians and Christianity%2C PEACEFULLY VOLUNTARILY ACCEPTED CHRISTIANITY AS AN EMPIRE FAITH%21 The Disciples of Jesus Christ were killed propagating Christianity%3B PEACEFULLY. Now I want you to give me JUST ONE INSTANCE where any WORLD NATION accepted Islam in the same manner.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd to Sholaz%2C you stated that Islam is spreading steadily in Europe and America. You then concluded that it was not being done forcefully. Is that supposed to be the answer to my question%3F Islam is NOT and will NOT%2C be the OFFICIAL religion of Europe and America. If you know your History%2C you will understand why. The ONLY WAY that Islam is going to be considered a %22DECENT%22 faith by the Westerners%2C is if the MOSLEMS succeed in FORCING it on them%3B just like the TERRORIST ALGERIA MOSLEMS are attempting to do to the FRENCH%21%0D%0A%0D%0AJason%2C you wrote that the Yorubas are now getting what they deserve for NOT taking the advantage to SECEDE %28or is ir SUCCEED as you wrote%29%2C when they should have. I really don%27t quite understand what you meant by that statement. The Yorubas DID NOT go to war to SECEDE. They went to war to MAINTAIN UNITY WITHIN THE POLITY.%0D%0A%0D%0AMany Igbo people%2C as well as tribeless people like yourself on this site%2C have blamed the Yorubas for the Nigerian civil war. At the center of that blame is the purported agreement between Chief Odumegwu Ojukwu and Chief Obafemi Awolowo%2C prior to the start of the war. On all of those instances%2C I have chosen NOT to contribute. The reason for that is because I am STILL searching for a statement made by Chief Odumegwu Ojukwu in a newspaper interview%2C in which he completely absolves Chief Awolowo. I read that interview on this site sometimes in year 2000. If Chief Ojukwu could completely exonerate Chief Awolowo%2C who are we %28those of us not privy to the agreement%29%2C to blame Chief Awolowo%2C and by extension the entire Yoruba race%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ASo Jason%2C your blowback theory will SOON blow back in your face.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnother dumb comment that you made is that Islamic law is a part of Hausa%2FFulani culture. Do you really understand the meaning of the word%3B culture%3F You need to start reading more and better books%2C if you intend to graduate college with some sort of a reasonable degree. However%2C if your ambition is to study classic Arabic%2C you are already doing much better than you need to%21%21%21%0D%0A%0D%0AJason%2C as if you couldn%27t possibily run out of stupid utterances%2C you questioned the audacity of those of us who DO NOT want a SEPARATE religious law for SOME citizens of our Nation. Do you know what the word %22Nation%22 means%3F The United States of America went to war%2C because some States wanted to hold on to the status quo%2C as far as SLAVERY was concerned. And somehow%2C shallow thinkers like you do NOT understand the IMPORTANCE of UNIFORMITY in NATIONAL LAWS.%0D%0A%0D%0AHere is a partial quote from Article VI of the Constitution of the United States of America%3A %22... This Constitution and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuant thereof%3B and all treaties made%2C or which shall be made%2C under the authority of the United states%2C shall be the supreme law of the land%3B and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby%2C anything in the Constitution or laws of any state to the contrary NOTWITHSTANDING...... both of the United states and of the several states%2C shall be bound by oath or affirmation%2C to support this Constitution%3B but NO RELIGIOUS TEST shall EVER BE REQUIRED as a QUALIFICATION to ANY OFFICE or public trust under the United States.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AIt is the laws%2C such as above%2C that made it possible for people like you to live a FULL life in America. If you can not ADVOCATE for such laws in your own country%2C you need to leave America for Saudi Arabia%21%0D%0A%0D%0AEgypt was predominantly Christian%2C during the first few centuries after Christ. All of that changed in 969 A.D%2C when the country was conquered by Jawhar al-Siqilli%2C moslem terrorists%2C who established Cairo as the new capital. The impact of Christianity is still visible today in Egypt. It is also probably why most recent Egyptian leaders are somehow relatively moderate. Anwar Saddat was a good man. Hosni Mubarak did not even attend this last Arab League meeting%2C I wonder why.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou see moslems%2C I am not the one that is %22obsessed%22 with Islamic terrorism%2C it is moslems that are obsessed with TERROR. They are the ones that kill Buhdists in their Temples. They are the ones that kill Jews in their Synagogues. They are the ones that kill Christians in their Churches. Now to you moslems%2C why don%27t you tell the world the names of any Buhdist%2C Jewish or Christian organizations%2C that have killed moslems in their mosques in the last ONE HUNDRED YEARS.%0D%0A%0D%0AIslam is a cult that gives all other cults%2C a bad name%21%21%21
73|13|72|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs.|Jason||22:38:45|04/01/2002|Hosni Mubarak is no more moderate than any other Arab leader.  Egypt just recently said if the middle East degenerates into all out war Isreal will lose%2C as you can see how damage the Palestinians are doing by themselves.%0D%0A%0D%0AMummar Gaddafi of Libya did not attent%2C in fact out of 22 Arab leaders%2C only 10 showed up%21  Most Arab leaders didn%27t show up because unhappy about Sharon having the tanks pulled at Arafat %2Cand kew very soon may be at all out war with Isreal.%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FAthens%2FParthenon%2F4482%2Fislaminargentina.html%0D%0A%0D%0AMuslims have grown to 10%25 of Argentina%27s population%2C due to Arab immigration and conversion.  They used to have a law saying only Catholics could become President.  But then Carlos Saul Memen ran for President%28his parents were Syrian%29 . Because he Arab%2C Gaddafi gave him money for his campiagn.  When Menem became President%2C he changed the law so anyone could become President and revealed that he was Muslim.%28He appointed some of his relatives from Syria to jobs in the Argentine government%29.  After that Saudi Arabia began funding Islamic centers and Mosques in Argentina . This is all peaceful . Now%2C Menem%27s last term was up in Argentina%2C but he is talking about running again in 2003.%0D%0A%0D%0AHere is more info about the spread of Islam in Latin America.%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.jannah.org%2Farticles%2Flatinmuslims.html%0D%0A%0D%0ASo there Faloye%2C you more info about people peacefully converting to Islam.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd Gaddafi%2C who has taken a more religious turn%2C peacefully became the leader of the African Union.  Not everything Musims do is violent %2Cas Christians have conquored people.  According to the newspapers%2C the wrking is being done ot ultimately combine all of Africa%27s militaries into one%2C then have one continental central bank%2C and one day one currency . That was done peacefully.  The Muslims charities have done good things like fund education for poor people across Africa%2C helping ot riase literacy and have given food . Why not name some of the good thigns Muslims have done or continue to do.  The Muslim nations agreed to supply Zimbawe with oil after the Westenr embargo%28Okay%2C Mugage has to sell shares of Zimbewean companies to Arab interests%28 . But at least didn%27t abandon Zimbawe.%0D%0A%0D%0A
75|14|73|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs.|Akinola Faloye||15:22:19|04/02/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-02-02 AT 03:30 PM (GMT+1)]Jason%2C just because Egypt said that Israel would lose in a war AGAINST all Arab Nations%2C does not mean that Israel would lose.%0D%0A%0D%0ADo you still remember the 1967 war against Israel by Arab Nations%3F The whole world understands the CONFEDERACY that exists among all those Arab Nations. To say that the Arabs HATE the Jews is an understatement. The entire world is aware of the fact that the only way the Hamas%2C the Islamic Jihad%2C the Al-haqsa brigade%2C the fattah movement and the rest of those Arab moslem terrorists%2C are going to be happy with the State of Israel%2C is if all the JEWS are FLUSHED UP the RED SEA%21%21%21 They have said so on many occasions.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe war that you are talking about is a physical war%2C as well as a spiritual war. The moslems are fighting GOD%27s plans%2C as far as the Jews are concerned%2C and the moslems CAN NOT win%2C no matter how many of them ENGAGE the State of Israel in a battle. Do not forget that the State of Israel also has allies all around the Globe. An all out war AGAINST the tiny State of Israel by a UNITED ARAB NATIONS%2C can ONLY bring about a tremendous world war%2C the type that we all pray NOT to be alive to witness. The Arabs are quite aware of that%21%21%21%0D%0A%0D%0AJason%2C you will do better if you present YOUR OWN opinions on issues%2C rather than referring your audience to other people%27s opinions. Just because an opinion is on web pages does not mean that it is accurate. I can refer you to literally thousands of sites that will refute all the claims on those sites that you refer me to. It is better for people to read different and differing texts%2C form their OWN opinions on those texts%2C after consulting some other independent Historical Texts. Never UNDERESTIMATE your own ability to think things through. Stop relying exclusively on other people%27s thought process%2C to arrive at a CONCLUSION on any issue of significant importance. Take my advice%2C and you will do well in University.%0D%0A%0D%0AJason%2CI guess it is now safe to say that you are a moslem%2C just as it is safe to say that you moslems DO NOT KNOW of any moslem country in the world today%2C that VOLUNTARILY PEACEFULLY ACCEPTED ISLAM AS A NATIONAL FAITH. That fact alone should be ENOUGH to discredit the claim of moslems that Islam is a faith of %22peace%22.%0D%0A%0D%0AIslam is a cult of wars%21%21%21
76|15|75|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs.|Jason||15:39:19|04/02/2002|The only country that would be upset about the destruction of Isreal is the US.  Oh%2C and by the way%2C the Muslim population in Isreal is growing to the point that will have the majority in Isreal itself within a generation. Even if you take away the West Bank and Gaza%2C Isreal is now 20%25%21%0D%0A%0D%0ADuring the crusades%2C the Christians captured Palestine.  The Muslims fought the Christians for 200 years%2C but in the end recaptured Palestine.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn the long run%2C the Muslims will retake Isreal.  And as the West sold Isreal a lot of weapons%2C they sold  the Arabs awhole lof of weapons of well%2C particuarly because formed the coalition against Saddam Hussein.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd I am not a Muslim Faloye.  You should be happy I mentioned a country which got a Muslim leader in a peaceful manner.%28Argentina%29. Are you satisifed now%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AEach time Isreal has fougt tje Arabs%2C they got better %2Cand more casualties.  If the Arab armies attack Isreal now%2C Isreal will harmed a big portion of army will have to engage the Palestinians%21  What Palestianians are doing is destroying Isreal from within.  Morewegn investment these days%2C and doesn%27t have torusim.  The price of real estate is falling.  A number of Jewish books are recommedning that Isrealis come to the West.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn the end they are doomed%2C and they know it.
77|16|76|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs.|Gaga||17:25:46|04/02/2002|Mr Jason%2C dey there dey lie all about witt your ficticious numbers wey you dey invent all over.%0D%0A%0D%0ASee facts here on Argentina.%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.shadow.net%2F%7Egiorgio%2Fargentina.html%0D%0A%0D%0AReligion%0D%0A%0D%0ARoman Catholics make up more than 92 percent of the population. Judaism%2C Protestantism%2C and a number of other Christian and non-Christian religions are%0D%0Apracticed%2C but several faiths and sects are banned as _injurious to public order._ By law%2C the president and vice president of Argentina must be Roman Catholic. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Palestinian suicide bombimbs as frequest as we see am%2C how effective e dey%3F Wetin he don archieve so far%3F  You talk of war%2C Isreal tell you say dem dey fear%3F When dem wire una butt for 67 where you been dey%3F Wait to see a repeat of history%2C and next time no just post bogus numbers%2C support am with documentation. You too live in dream land. Abeg wake up you don sleep tire. Islam no take over nothing. Good morning by the way%21
78|17|77|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs.|Gaga||17:39:01|04/02/2002|More information on Argentina dude%3A%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2Fhi%2Fenglish%2Fworld%2Famericas%2Fnewsid_1196000%2F1196005.stm
87|18|78|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs.|Jason||09:02:11|04/03/2002|Dear Gaga%3A%0D%0A%0D%0ABelow taken from AP wires are the effects the terrorists are having on Isreal.%0D%0A%0D%0AAPRIL 02%2C 21%3A34 ET %0D%0AAmericans Warned to Avoid Israel %0D%0A%0D%0ABy BARRY SCHWEID %0D%0AAP Diplomatic Writer %0D%0A%0D%0ABush calls on Arafat to halt bombings%0D%0AQuickTime %0D%0ARealVideo  %0D%0A %0D%0A %0D%0A %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AWASHINGTON %28AP%29 %97 The State Department%2C citing a %60%60deteriorating security situation%2C%27%27 urged Americans who live in Jerusalem to leave the city on Tuesday and encouraged dependents of American diplomats to return to the United States. %0D%0A%0D%0AIn a new and more pointed travel warning%2C the department again told Americans to defer travel to Israel%2C the West Bank and Gaza. This time%2C it also said U.S. citizens residing in Jerusalem as well as the territories should consider moving to safer locations. %0D%0A%0D%0AThose who live in the city%2C the target of an escalating string of Palestinian bombings%2C were told to be particularly careful and to avoid crowds and demonstrations.  %0D%0AYasser Arafat%0D%0AAP%2FHussein Hussein %5B22K%5D%0D%0A--------------------------------------------------------------------------------%0D%0A  %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%60%60The potential for further terrorist acts remains high%2C%27%27 the department statement said. %60%60The situation in Jerusalem%2C the West Bank and Gaza remains extremely volatile with continuing terrorist attacks%2C confrontations and clashes.%27%27 %0D%0A%0D%0AWarnings to Americans to stay away from Israel were issued in December and January. The statement Tuesday was coupled with an announcement that dependents of U.S. diplomats and other American workers at the U.S. consulate in Jerusalem were authorized to go home at government expense. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe departure of dependents%2C which is not mandatory%2C was based on the general situation and not on any specific threats against Americans%2C said a U.S. official. %0D%0A%0D%0AIsrael%27s economy already is reeling under the destruction caused by terror attacks%2C the expense of a military buildup and a sharp decline in tourists. The new U.S. warning is bound to add to Americans%27 anxieties about visiting Israel.  %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AThe United States%2C declining to recognize Jerusalem as Israel%27s capital%2C maintains its embassy in Tel Aviv. The authorized departure of dependents%2C as it is called%2C does not apply to the embassy. %0D%0A%0D%0APartly for religious reasons%2C Jerusalem has attracted Jews from around the world for centuries. Many are attached to its Biblical sites%2C and it was not clear how effective the State Department suggestion to U.S. citizens to consider relocating would be. %0D%0A%0D%0APalestinian Americans%2C for religious and family reasons%2C also are attracted to Jerusalem. %0D%0A%0D%0ATel Aviv%2C too%2C has suffered bloody attacks%2C but with less frequency. %0D%0A%0D%0ADiplomatic efforts continue in the Middle East%0D%0AQuickTime %0D%0ARealVideo  %0D%0A %0D%0A %0D%0A %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AAn estimated 100 to 150 American dependents are eligible to go home. %0D%0A%0D%0AAlso Tuesday%2C the University of California said it was arranging travel back to the United States for 27 students enrolled in programs in Israel and putting its fall 2002 academic program in Israel on hold %60%60in view of the dramatically escalating violence in the Middle East.%27%27 %0D%0A%0D%0AThe school said it was joining the universities of Colorado and Washington in recalling students from Israel. The university noted that 28 of its students in Israel had previously abandoned their studies there. %0D%0A%0D%0APresident Bush lamented the Mideast impasse%2C saying Israel has a right to exist and Palestinians have a right to live in their own state one day. %0D%0A%0D%0ARumsfeld predicts opposition in Iran%0D%0AQuickTime %0D%0ARealVideo  %0D%0A %0D%0A %0D%0A %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%60%60There are those who want to destroy that vision%27%27 of a peaceful Mideast%2C Bush said at a political fund-raiser in Philadelphia. %60%60There are those who want to murder to make sure that vision never comes to be.%27%27 %0D%0A%0D%0A%60%60The United States of America will stand strong and continue to insist that those who yearn for peace in the Middle East and other regions around the world must do everything they can to stop the terrorist activities all aimed at making sure that peace does not exist%2C%27%27 he said. %0D%0A%0D%0AMeanwhile%2C Secretary of State Colin Powell made another call to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon%2C his third since Saturday%2C and talked also to Prime Minister Ali Abul-Ragheb of Jordan. %0D%0A%0D%0AJafar Hassan%2C who heads the Jordanian Embassy in Washington%2C said Israel%27s actions on the West Bank were having %60%60an extremely negative impact%27%27 on relations between Israel and Jordan. Also%2C Hassan said in an interview%2C Jordan%27s attempts to steer Israel and the Palestinians into a peace accord have been damaged. %0D%0A%0D%0AAbul-Ragheb urged the Bush administration to end Israel%27s siege on Yasser Arafat%27s headquarters at Ramallah%2C on the West Bank%2C and to force Israel to withdraw all its troops from Palestinian-held areas%2C the Jordanian news agency Petra said. %0D%0A%0D%0AAnd Egypt%27s Middle East News agency reported President Hosni Mubarak had sent a %60%60personal and urgent%27%27 message to Bush to urge him to %60%60take an immediate action that will stop %97 as soon as possible %97 the violent military campaign undertaken by Israel to occupy Palestinian-controlled areas%2C something that is expanding day after day.%27%27 %0D%0A%0D%0AMubarak warned of further deterioration if Israel continued its %60%60brutal campaign.%27%27 %0D%0A%0D%0APowell%2C responding to scattered suggestions from members of Congress that he go to the Middle East%2C said%2C %60%60I am prepared to go anywhere%2C anytime%2C when it serves a useful purpose.%27%27 %0D%0A%0D%0AOn NBC%27s %60%60Today%27%27 program%2C Powell said he would guess that the Israeli military drive into Palestinian-held areas of the West Bank would last a couple of weeks. %60%60I hope this will end quickly%2C but I can%27t predict when the Israelis will make the judgment that they can withdraw%2C%27%27 he said. %0D%0A
88|19|87|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs.|Gaga||15:17:58|04/03/2002|Dear Jason%2C %0D%0Athis is old news. I have access to CNN%2C NBC%2C ABC%2C FOX NEW%2C and even BBC. Isreal still occupies the territory%2C and are making more incursions into Palestinian land despite international pressure to withdraw. So cry all you want. The latest stats I saw yesterday about the death toll since the beginning of this violence which was started by the terrorist palestinians shows 1%2C198 deaths for palestinians and 435 Isreali deaths. You do the math.%0D%0A%0D%0AOn a seperate issue%2C you posted so many links here claiming that EX Argentinian president Menem admited to being a moslem. You went a step further to claim that he change the political rule which states that by law the President and his deputy must be roman Catholics. Now%2C if this were true%2C dosen%27t that put Christians o a different light altogether in regards to our tolerance and acceptance of people%3F Since Argentina a strict catholic nation would make such gignatic political%2Freligious reform%2C why is it that muslim nations cannot do the same%3F Now imagine a thing like that happening in Iran. Is that possible%3F The question is%2C as a christian or a muslim%2C if your faith is the one sanctioned by God%2C then it can never be defeated or shaken. Why then do Islamic countries supress any form of Christian Evangelism%3F Why were 3 American missionaries arrested in Afghanistan for trying to spread Christianity%3F Yet in other Christian nations%2C Islam is not surpressed in any form. So in all is that a fair balance%3F 
91|20|88|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs.|Jason||19:51:14|04/03/2002|Yes Gaga%2C I will do the Math%2C  In the 1980s%2C for every Isreali killed%2C 25 Palestinians died.  Now%2C for every Isreali killed%2C 3 Palestinians die . So it appears the Palestinians have closed the gap and learned to be better fighters . Now%2C even if the current ratio o 1 to 3%28jewish and Muslim%29 death ratio remains%2C since there are just a few million Jews in Isreal and 1.6 billion Muslims in the world%2C who will win in the long run.  You have plenty of Muslims who can sacrifice their lives.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe AP newswire%2C written by the US associated press%2C says the terrorists are destroying Isreal%27s economy because tourist no longer come%2C American business people are leaving due fear and the US government telling them to leave%2C etc.%0D%0A%0D%0ASo in the long run%2C the government in Isreal will fall.  it%27s not a question of if.  It is a question of when. 
81|17|77|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs.|Jason||18:51:41|04/02/2002|Well%2C the US government under Bush now even more strongly supports a Palestinian state%2C so the suicide bombers must have some effect.%0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t approve of terrorism%2C but it has major effects.   The US has not attcked Iraq because the Arab league said attack on Iraq qould be an attack on all.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd I did not lie about Menem%2C Gaga.  He claimed to be Roman Catholic%2C got elected%2C changed the law.%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2Fresources%2Fnewsmakers%2Fworld%2Fsamerica%2Fmenem.html%0D%0A%0D%0AHe is an Arab Argentine raised as a Sunni Muslim%2C who for political reasons%2C pretended to be a Roman Catholic.%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.ahram.org.eg%2Fweekly%2F2000%2F503%2Fin3.htm%0D%0A%0D%0AMenem toed Argentine close to the Arab world politically and economically.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for Arab%27 nations%2C in 1967 they had a lot less technlogy%2C which is osmething you and Faloy act is if you can not understand.  Read this report.%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.engineeringnews.co.za%2Feditorschoice%2F%3Fshow%3D9546%0D%0A%0D%0ADo you seem that many Muslim or Muslim controlled nations in Africa%2C inclduing nigeria%2C have nuclear tecnology . I don%27t care what non proliferation agreements you may have signed%2C once you build nuclear power plants%2C it is very easy to make a bomb.  Pakistan already has working bombs.%0D%0A%0D%0ATHis war in the middle East could very well go nuclear. Now%2C Isreal itself has bobms. The thing is%2C there 1.6 billion Muslims in the world%2C to a few million Isrealis.  The US government is nervous about the Middle East%2C because it is only a matter of time before the Muslims drop the bomb on Isreal%21%0D%0A%0D%0AThat is%2C if it not destroyed internally by the Palestinians first.
79|16|76|||||To Jason.|AGSOBA69||18:02:55|04/02/2002|Jason%2C the question is to name just one country that has peacefully and voluntarily accepted Islam as its national religion %28or faith%29%2C NOT %22peaceful%22 conversion of a few people in a country.
82|17|79|||||RE%3A To Agsoba69|sholaz||19:07:29|04/02/2002|Agsoba%2C to the best of my knowledge%2Cthere are three countries%28Saudi Arabia%2CIran and Libya%29that are officially Islamic countries and I have answered that question in an earlier piece that i am sure you will find on this site.Let me make some clarifications here in relation to this because this question has been persistent on this site.The faiths were before the existing states%2Fcountries and each of the faiths were tailored along racial lines.We know that the arabs predominantly are muslims as a racial bloc%2Cthe europeans are predominantly xtians as a racial bloc and the jews are exclusively judaists as a racial bloc.I used the word exclusive because the jews believe that Judaism is solely for them as a race and a non jew that embraces it is considered as a tresspasser%2C little wonder they do not even evangelise.So%2Cyou can still use the conversion of people outside these blocs as a parameter to determine whether they converted through force or willingly. %0D%0A
83|18|82|||||RE%3A To Agsoba69|Jason||21:16:45|04/02/2002|The European Christians%2C kong after the Roman Empire forced people to cover to Christianity%28they quickly forgot had been persecuted when it became the state religion%29%2C forced other people to convert%21%0D%0A%0D%0AThe true battles in Africa right now between the Christians and Muslims will determine whether Africa is ruled by the Arabs or controled by the Europeans.  Do not kid get yourself . All this hate and violence between Africans%2C over religions that were both foriegn to Africa.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn other words%2C religion was used to enslave people.%0D%0A%0D%0ASholaz%2C the Sudan is also officially an Islamic country.  I believe Kuwait is as well.  Before Musharaff took over Pakistan%2C Islamic law was declared the official law. Mushraff is a military leader%2C but the laws of Pakistan are clearly Islamic.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut back to both the Arab and European conquests of Africa%2C they structures they left are so deeply embedded that Africa will never be rid of them.%0D%0A%0D%0ANot a single African language%28unless you want to account Arabic an an African language%2C many do%29 is an official language of the African Union.%28THe OAU is transforming into the AU%29%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.oau-oua.org%2Foau_info%2Fcontact.htm%0D%0A%0D%0A There will come the day when the Muslims in Africa are throughly Arabized%2C and when the Christians only speak the European languages.  %0D%0A%0D%0AAfrica has hundreds of langagues that are dying and countries with greatest losses are the Sudan%2C Nigeria%2C and Ethiopia.  But this loss is big throughout Africa.%0D%0ASo I am curious as to how do the people on this forum feel%2C that one day most of their tribal identities and culture will be wiped out.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A
84|19|83|||||RE%3A To Agsoba69|Jason||21:25:47|04/02/2002|Faloye%2C both the Christians and the Muslims have been the greatest enemies of all of Africa%27s traditions%2C from religions to languages.  So tell me how is one different from the other%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ALeave out situations such as Palestine%2C India%2C etc%2C they have nothing to do with Africa.  Show me some proof that in regards to Africa%2C the Christians%28Europeans%29%2C have better better the Muslims.  Keep in mind many White Christians thought and think white rule of Zimbawe and South Africa was their God given right. Mugabe may be a tyrant%2C but it time for Africans to take back what is rightfully theirs.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow%2C in orer to oust the white settlers out%2C Mugage had ot make deals with Gaddafi and as the rest has embargoes Zimbawe%28they have no oi land miss certain other resources%29%2C Southenr Africa may very wel be replacing European colonialism with Arab colonialism.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd that truly is said that the people on this forum can not see that%2C in reality they are fighting for one master%28the European%29%2C or the other%28Arab%29.  And Faloye%2C I am not a Muslim%2C if I were to pick a religion it would be that of the Orishas%21%0D%0A%0D%0ABut then again%2C to many of te Hausa and the Fulani%2C they identify themselves as being part Arab%2C so I guess their identifying with them make sense.
85|16|76|||||Religious Vilolence  In Perspectives.|jokiIrun||22:41:43|04/02/2002|I had thought of not getting involved again whenever any fundamental issue relating to Christianity and Islam is being discussed here.This is because experiences have shown that some christian discussants on this forum are so aghast to simple albeit bitter truth about their faith%2Csuch that they become so passionately emotional%2Cwhenever such simple truth are presented here.It is not in my character to get on people%27s nerves.That is why at times%2Ci just keep quite and allow the sleeping dog to lie.To people like Akin%2Cthe fanatical champion of Christian cause on this site%2Cany simple truth about Christianity is truely untrue%2Cin so far as it does not conform with his own views or worst still%2C in so far as it tilts in favour of Islam and Muslems%2Chis avowed enemies.This is quite unfortunate.%0D%0A%0D%0A   But one can not but speak the truth%2Ceven if heavens will fall.And as Oputa%2Cthe socrates of the bench has told us%2Cthe Heavens will not fall if truth is told%2Cbut the heavenly bodies will rather rejoice and glorify the Lord%2Cin that the truth is told.The present renewed efforts of Akin and his cohorts to portray Islam and Muslems in bad light not withstanding%2Cthe truth of the matter remains that violence or terrorisim has no religion.There are terrorists of Islamic persuasion in equal number with those of the Christian faith.Indeed%2Chistorical evidence point to the fact that the Jews and Christians%2Cespecially the Christians%2C are more of terrorist harbingers than the Muslems.The acts of terrorisim that is now being seen as Islamic past time by cynics%2Care the harvests of the seeds of generational troubles that was sown into the world%2Cby the christians of old and which embers are being fanned by those of today.%0D%0A%0D%0A   No word will explain what i%27am talking about here now better than the words of Bill Cliton%2Cthe immediate past president of America%2Cwhom we all know as a staunch Christian.He said and i quote here as follows%3A%22The deliberate killing of non-combatants has a very long history.No religion of the world has been spared it and very few people have clean hands.In 1095%2CPope Urban 11%2Curged the Christian soldiers to embark on the first crusade to capture Jerusalem for Christ%22.%0D%0A%0D%0A    %22Well%2Cthey did it%2Cand the very first thing they did was to burn a synagogue with three hundred Jews.They then proceeded to murder every Muslem woman and child on the Temple Mount%2Cin a travesty that is still being discussed today in the Middle East.Down through the Millenium%2Cinnocents continue to die%2Cmore in the twentieth century than in any previous period%22%0D%0A%0D%0A   %22In my own country %28USA%29%2Cwe%27ve come a long way since the days when African slaves and native Americans could be terrorised or killed with impunity.But %28even then%29%2Cwe still have the occasional acts of brutality or even death because of someone%27s race or religion or sexual orientation.This %28too%29 has a long history%22.%0D%0A%0D%0A   The above comments were Bill Cliton%27s reaction to the unfortunate events of September 11th%2C2001.He made them not in the Middle East%2Cor Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan%2Cbut at the heart London%2Cin his key note address%2Con the occasion of the Dumbleby Annual Lecture Series%2Cheld on 14th December%2C2001%28he was the guest lecturer%29.You can be sure that more than 85%25 of his audience was Christian.You see%2Cthe truth%2Cno matter how long it takes%2Cwill remain the truth.It is only lies that changes irregularly and with time%2C it fissles away and yield place to the truth.The world has a ray of hope%2Csince not all Christians have been stung by  that deadly wasp%2Cwhich for want of a better description%2Ci%27ll like to call the akinfaloye bee.Bravo Cliton%2CCliton for ever.See you%2Chave a nice time and enjoy. %0D%0A%0D%0A    %0D%0A%0D%0A  
86|17|85|||||RE%3A Religious Vilolence  In Perspectives.|Jason||01:53:33|04/03/2002|Well sais jokirun . I might also add the US government and even the Christian leadership has climbed into bed with fundamentalist Muslims when they had some gain from it.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe US government trained the Taliban and Al Queda to fight the Russians.  As late as may 2001%2C the Bush administration gave the Taliban 40 million dollars.  The US also gave a lot of money to Pakistan%2C because the Indians were allies of the Soviet Union. he Chirstian leaders hated communism so much supported giving money and weapons to such as the Taliban.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe West buys a lot of Oil from the Muslim countries.  Therefore%2C the fundamentalism which spreads out of the Arabian pensisula across Africa and Asia is pid for by Western dollars.  Especially%2C after the Gulf War%2C the US became much closer to the Arabs%28so too did the rest of the West%29.  %0D%0A%0D%0AAs fr the jihad in the Suda%2C where was the US and other Western countries . The technology with Sudanese government used came from Russia%2C CHina%2C and the West.  Now the UN%2C and the West%27s bidding%2C dropped the embargoes in Libya and the Sudan . Now the US is preparing to drop it%27s own embargo on Libya and the Sudan%2C as American business interest are ready to do business.  An article in the New York Times concerning the Sudah showed the dismay of the Southern Sudanese . One man said%2C %22these Arabs %2Care savage people who want to rule the world with that book the Quran.  But these Westerners are worst%2C they only care about money%22%0D%0A%0D%0ASo you see%2C the Christian West an indirect way%2C is paying for the slaughter of Southern Sudanese Christians and the Muslim jihad . And at tiems in a direct way.%0D%0A%0D%0AEthiopia claims that Somalia harbors Al Queda%28not true%29.  But now the TNG%2C which intends to rule Somali has made overtures to the US. And now some are advising the Bush administration to train the fundamentalist government there%2C in the belief that be able to put down the clans and stabilize Somalia%28Somalia has oil%29.
80|13|72|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs. Akin Faloye|sholaz||18:32:16|04/02/2002|Akin%2C the problem is that you only want to hear your own voice hence to you your questions are never answered because the answers do not tally with your views but you can still revisit the earlier written pieces and you will find your answers staring you in the face.Let me indulge you further by responding to this latest piece of yours in relation to violence vis a vis Islamic countries.Let me begin with the country of birth of the prophet%28Saudi Arabia%29.The people of Medina%28where Islam had its first foothold%29 VOLUNTARILY invited and welcomed the muslims from the persecution of the Mecca people and WILLINGLY embraced the faith.When the muslims returned to Mecca%2C it was not through any war conquest but rather through a treaty signed by the muslims and the people of mecca guaranteeing the freedom of beliefs.In between these two periods i.e%28migration to Medina and the return to Mecca%29%2Cwars were fought but they were wars of self preservation and in self defence%2Cso even from the cradle of Islam it was not a question of violence and the subsequent spread of Islam were through letters sent to the other communities by the prophet INVITING them to Islam as commanded in the holy Quran.Let me quickly say something on Algeria that you mentioned.Prior to 1990%2Cthe situation in that place was peaceful but it was after the seeming victory of the FIS%28islamic party%29 was aborted ala june 12 that they have had this problem uptodate so it was a reactionary thing and like the saying%27 action begets reaction%27. 
89|14|80|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs. Akin Faloye|Akinola Faloye||17:07:15|04/03/2002|JikiIrun%2C you know how to pick them%2C don%27t you%3F You described William Jefferson Clinton as a %22staunch Christian%22. If you believe that Clinton can be seen as an emissary of Christianity%2C then your view of Christianity is really flawed INDEED%21 A married man who engaged in Sodomised sex in his marital %22home%22%2C is described by you as a staunch Christian. Is that what staunch moslems do%3F The answer is probably YES%2C given the fact that your prophet Mohammed himself did EXACTLY the same thing%21%0D%0A%0D%0AJokiIrun%2C you wrote that there are %22EQUAL%22 number of Christian and moslem terrorists. Are you for real%3F Church of Nativity in Bethlehem is under siege TODAY%2C courtesy of those bastard moslems who told us couple of months ago that they %22love death as much as Westerners love life%22. If that is true%2C why are they running away from Israeli tanks%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ASholaz%2C did I read in your piece up there that Saudi Arabia%2C Iran and Libya%2C VOLUNTARILY PEACEFULLY ACCEPTED ISLAM AS A NATIONAL FAITH%3F I was hoping that one of you moslems would pick a country whose HISTORY isn%27t that well known to most people. But look at what you just did. You picked countries whose History are so well known%2C that even your fellow moslems will disagree with you. The innocent blood of all those %22PAGANS%22 and Christians and Jews that were MURDERED by your fellow moslems in Saudi Arabia and Iran and Libya%2C will NEVER forgive you for CLAIMING that Islam was PEACEFULLY propagated in those countries.%0D%0A%0D%0AJason%2C I like to know where my fellow debaters are coming from. And until I know where you are from%2C and what your religion affiliation is%2C I will not respond to any of your outrageous and ridiculous defence of the CULT of Islam. Your engagement in moral relativism%2C as far as Christianity and Islam are concerned%2C is morally repugnant.%0D%0A%0D%0ASo moslems%2C when are you guys going to come up with JUST ONE COUNTRY%2C that was NOT butchered to death before accepting this wonderful CULT of Islam as a NATIONAL FAITH%3F You moslems know that there is no such country anywhere in the WORLD%2C and that is why you don%27t have an answer. The possible answer%2C and the ONLY correct answer%2C makes Islam look like a cult of war that it really is.%0D%0A%0D%0AIslam is really a cult%21%21%21
90|15|89|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs. Akin Faloye|Dyno||19:41:00|04/03/2002|For most of you who don%92t know Akinola Faloye%2C then welcome to His Royal Emptiness. The last time we tangoed over religion I went to great lengths to present facts to him and the forum%2C which proved he was either a liar or badly or even deliberately misinformed%2C all to no avail. He is still talking Chinese. He is also not a Christian but engages in Pokraji%2C the tendency to worship the swine%2C and these are his words.%0D%0A%0D%0A%93If you believe that Clinton can be seen as an emissary of Christianity%2C then your view of Christianity is really flawed INDEED%21 A married man who engaged in Sodomised sex in his marital %22home%22%2C is described by you as a staunch Christian.%94 %0D%0AGee was that what Clinton did%3F Can you explain the current sex scandal %28paedophilia%29 rocking the Catholic Church by priests and monks%3F You said Prophet Mohammed did the same%2C what did he do%2C the same as Clinton or the same as the Catholic priests%3F Any proof%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAbout terrorism%2C unlike Bush%2C we will define it first. %0D%0ADEFINITION%3A Any activity targeted at hurting innocent civilians. Okay%3F%0D%0AFirst%2C there has been MORE Christian terrorists than Muslim terrorists in the history of the world and I will explain. Muslim terrorists fight for a cause%2C usually some gross injustice either local or global. This is so because it affects their lives and families and they are driven to use terrorism as the only means of getting noticed%2C like Palestinians. Christian terrorists like Tim McVeigh and Theodore Kazinsky have no cause whatsoever but to see how much destruction they can cause. Few of them like the IRA have any genuine cause%2C Kazinsky claimed he was %91fighting technology%92 whatever that means. If you take WWII and Hitler%92s claim that he is a Christian %28modifying the cross as the swastika%29 and you take what he did to Jews alone%2C killing 6m out of 8m of their entire civilian world population and destroying the whole of Europe in the process%2C the point becomes clear.%0D%0A%0D%0AFor your information Akinola%2C no society ever uniformly accepts anything without dissidents%2C even if it is money%2C and even local traditional and religious contents are not%2C hence variations in tribes and cultures that you see. Lets take the example of Nigeria%2C when the white missionaries arrived the south of Nigeria%2C they had to dethrone the pagan gods first or be killed themselves%2C so blood had to flow. The British expeditionary forces first deposed King Zsa Zsa of Opobo and other similar kingdoms FIRST%2C before they thought of building the first church and the gradual conversions begin. They moved up north and deposed most of the organised governments and emirates they found there and replaced it with their own. I am sure you would love to tell me all about Islamic jihads%3B yes you are right.%0D%0A%0D%0A%93So moslems%2C when are you guys going to come up with JUST ONE COUNTRY%2C that was NOT butchered to death before accepting this wonderful CULT of Islam as a NATIONAL FAITH%3F%94 I still say Saudi Arabia%2C Iran%2C Libya%2C Afganistan and so on%2C if you don%92t agree provide facts not rhetoric since you claim to know all their histories. YOU tell me Mr Dodger%2C one country that threw out their traditional religions to accept that of the white people with a mighty celebration%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AFinally%2C if according to Bush%2FSharon any country that harbours or relates to or support terrorist%2C that country is a terrorists then the Arab world that supports Palestinians are terrorists and by extension the Muslim world that supports the Arabs are terrorists too%21%21 If terrorism is any harmful acts against innocent civilians%2C then the current demolition of the Palestinian populace by Israel is share terrorism%2C and by extension the US who supports Israel is a terrorist. The world is currently bereft of leadership%2C Bush is the puppet of the current devil-regime in Tel-Aviv and one can at last begin to see the logic of Osama bin Laden.%0D%0A
92|15|89|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs. Akin Faloye|Jason||20:21:13|04/03/2002|I remember the Christian Evangelist Jim Baker%2C who was caught having an affair with another woman.  He was a married man.%0D%0A%0D%0AI also remember reading the canturbury tales written by Goegreey Chaucer . it starts out making fun of all the corruption in the church and that time in Englad.  Bare in mind the Protestants are really Catholics that protested some of the problems in the main church%2C and wanted certain reforms%2C so seperated.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Canterbury Tales starts out with the prioress . She was the chief nu and nuns are supposed to be celibate%2C with a vow of poverty . This nun though wore jewelry%2C fed meat%2C milk and grains to her pet dogs and rats%2C smiled seductively at men%2C and wore a bracelet that said love conqueors all . She would have sex with men as came into the church to pray.%0D%0A%0D%0AThen%2C one of the priests%2C before he married couples%2C would fix them . In other words%2C he would demand to have sex with the bride first and only after having sex with her would he marry her off to the groom.%0D%0A%0D%0AThen the monk who mentioned who had sex with patrons of the church.  The wife of bath%2C a prominent woman in the church%2C had 5 husbands and a great deal more lovers.%0D%0A%0D%0AAt that point in Christianity%2C the church taught you had to pay a priest to pray for you soul%2C or else you would go to hell.  So the church in Europe actually made quite a bit of %24%24%24%24%24%24%24%24.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd yes%2C we do have a number of priests in the church who molest children.  Some high level ahrcbishops have had to resign in Poland and Ireland recently because of this%21%0D%0A%0D%0AAs you Faloye%2C you are very close minded.  I am not saying agreeing with everything that Muslims do%2C but I also don%27t agree with everything Christians or others do.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd you refuse to admit how much hatred and contempt Christians have for pagans.  As for you Gaga%2C who said why don%27t Muslim countries permit Christian missionaries to enter%2C why should they%3F  Why allow the religion of the white missionaries to come in%2C conqueor and dive your people%3F  China is not a Muslim country%2C yet they do not allow Missionaries to come in.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd in fact%2C since Christian missionaries themselves are extremely intolerant.  Who are they to come to another country and tell the people everything that do is wrong%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for as sharia in Nigeria goes%2C I maintain if most people in the North want it%2C they should have it.  if the rest of Nigeria does not like it%2C fine%2C the North is free to become independant%3F We%2C the US%2C didn%27t like British laws so we got our independance.  %0D%0A%0D%0AHowever%2C I suspect if the Southwest has 4 out of 7 Muslim governors%2C by the next Presidential election it too will be under sharia.  That is why Faloye is raging on and on about Islam being a cult%2C because he fears the spread of sharia.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ADyno%2C what your thoughts of Gaddafi%27s transformation of the OAU into the AU%3F  ALso%2C I will start studying classical Arabic in the fall.  I have that Northern Nigeria uses Arabic in it%27s governmental business%2C etc.  So I would people speak it%28I know Hausa would be the ethnic group and language of the North%29%3F  I would like to visit Nigeria in 2003 late summer.  How would people in the North feel about African Americans . many of my Hausa and Fulani friends say I look like one of them%2C and I want to see if I can trace my family history to find out if it is true.  One African American woman used dna testing to find out what tribe her family came from in Ghana.%0D%0A
93|15|89|||||Truth%2CTruth And Nothing But THE TRUTH.|jokiIrun||20:51:59|04/03/2002|   Like i always say%2Cit is not in my character to be impudent%2Cinsolent and unculturedly dispossed.All i know how to do is to present my case as truthfully and as factually as they are%2Csuch that cynics will find it impossible to rebut.Whenever Akin is connered in the course of any discussion%2Che resorts to verbal aggression%2Csans facts%2Csans any aiota of truth and completely devoid of any point of either academic or religious value.In my own view%2Cthis is not the refined  behaviour%2Cwhich is required of all the members of this all important public forum%2Cdesigned for reasonable personalities to brainstorm%2Crub minds%2Cinform%2Ceducate and thus  benefit the world in our own little way.He needs to review his conduct and appraoch to issues.Some pieces of advice%2Cyou%27ll say.%0D%0A%0D%0A    Now%2Cone of the many sources of grouse of Akin and his likes about Islam is the faith%27s share of acts of warfare.He nurses so great a misconception about this%2Cthat he has now come to the erroneous conclusion that no Muslem nation of the world accepts Islam peacefully as a state religion.Even when Sholaz has effortlessly addressed this very simple issue%2Che still remains unsatisfied.It is not my intention to satisfy him here%2Cbut to complement the efforts of sholaz%2Cmyself%2Cjason and others on the matter%2Cso as to prevent innocent readers from being misled by his falacious claims.%0D%0A%0D%0A    One is not required to take a doctorate in History to know that Muslems ruled over Spain for 736 years.The longest the christians ever ruled over any Muslems world was 500 years in Muzambique%2Can African territory captured from an Arab governor by the name of Musa Bin Baique%2Ca name they could not pronounce properly%2Chence the name Mozambique.Even today%2Cafter five centuries of christian overlordship%2Cthe country is still 60%25 Muslem.However%2Cafter eight centuries in Spain%2Cthe Muslems were totally eliminated from the country by the christians%2C such that not even one man was left to call the %27Azaan%27%21Were it true that the Muslems were so forceful in their approach%2Cthe reverse would have been the case.No one can charge the Muslems for using FORCE to convert the Sparniards to the Islamic faith.%0D%0A%0D%0A    The muslems were also the Masters of India for a thousand  year%2Cbut at independence in 1947%2Cthe Hidus obtained three-quarters of the country whilest the Muslems took the balance of one quarter.Why%3FBecause the Muslems did not force Islam down the Hindus%27throat.What the Muslems had always adhered to is the Quoranic injunction that%3A%22Let there be no compulsion in Religion%3BFor Truth stands out distinct from error%22 %282%3A256%29.From this divine command%2Call real Muslems of the world know that Religion depends on faith and free will%2Cand these would be meaningless if induced by force.Force can conquer but cannot convert.Truth and error have been so clearly shown up by the Mercy of God that there should be no doubt in the minds of any body of good will%2Cas to the fundamentals of faith.More over%2CGod%27s protection is continuous and His plan is to always lead us from the depth of darkness into the clearest light.%0D%0A%0D%0A  Except for some isolated cases of few eccentrics here and there%2Cthe Muslems as a whole have always stuck to the commandments of God in all the lands over which they held or are holding sway.I wonder why Akin has failed to recognise the living fact that there are a number of Islamic Nations of the world%2Cwhere there is no record of a single Muslem worrior%28If any%29setting his foot thereon%2Cfor purposes of forceful conversion into Islam.For instance%2CIndonesia.This is the world%27s largest Muslem community%2Cand yet no conquering Muslem army ever landed on any of its over two thousand islands.Then Malesia%2Cwith a population of over 70%25 Muslem and with the adoption of sunni Islam as the official state faith%2Cbut without any record of forceful conversion.Even in Africa%2Cthere is no record of forceful conversion in all the continent%27s Muslem locations%2CAkin%27s faulty Egyptian History not withstanding.%0D%0A%0D%0A   I think that one of the greastest %27crimes%27of Nabiy%27l Muhammad%2Cthe prophet of God%2C%28SAW%29%2Cin the eyes of people like Akin is the fact that the prophet did not allow himself to be slaughtered or rather to be %22crucified%22 by his enemies.He ably rose up to the challenge of the aggresors%2Cdefended himself%2Chis family and followers against acts of terror and at last%2CGod crowned his efforts and made him to vanquish his enemies.His eventual success is the gall of bitterness and disappointment of those christians in Akin%27s stock.Prophet Muhammed%28SAW%29 did not believe in any any vicarious sacrifice for the sins of others.He believed and coducted himself naturally.Says Gibbon%2Cthe master historian%2C%22In the state of nature%2Ceveryone has a right to defend his person and possessions and extend his hostilities to a reasonable amount of satisfaction and retaliation%22.It was the prophet%27s struggle and victory over the pugnacious forces of evil%2Cwhich forces were the aggressors in all cases%2C that moved the editors of the Encyclopedia Britanica to exclaim that Mohammed%28SAW%29%2Cis %22The most successful of all Religious Personalities%2Cinclusive of Jesus%22.This is the truth as seen it not only by me%2Cbut all free and unbiased minded peoples of the world%2Cnot the likes of Akin Faloye%2Cwho are in the infernal minority and whose views are of imponderable coefficient%2Cin the determination of what matters on these issues.Cheers all%2Cremain Blessed.%0D%0A%0D%0A  
94|15|89|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs. Akin Faloye|sholaz||23:06:11|04/03/2002|Akin%2C of course I would be deluding myself to even think that you would accept any answer proffered to your questions but the effort is for the sake of open minded people who might want to enrich their knowledge so you can live in your %27hate world%27for as long as you like.There is no point going on and on with this since that is your stock in trade. Do not forget that this was a discussion about Azeezah%27s lawsuit but typical of you%2Cyou always cause a digression and turn it into the main topic.Jokirun has said it all and I have got nothing more to add so for me on this topic%2C it is a wrap.
95|16|94|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs. Akin Faloye|PapiLuwe||01:20:00|04/04/2002|Jason%2C%0D%0A%0D%0AWhats your beef anyway%3F From what i gather you are African-American%2C if you%27ve not lived in Nigeria then you cannot know the inticracies of Nigeria. This is not America that you can read up about in a book. Nigerians are not sure how many we are%2C we don%27t know exactly the population make up of the %27tribes%27 or the religions so you would do well to observe and learn.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m also slightly amused that you have an affinity to Islam and Arabic simply because you%27ve been told you look Hausa%2C I know about the dna experiment by Prof Kittles that you mentioned and i also know he warned African-Americans taking the test to prepare themselves for unexpected results - Supposing you find that like a good number of African-Americans%2C you are more Irish than African%3F Will you still be as eager to learn Arabic or would you take an interest in Gaelic%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ATo Akinola%2C I can%27t support you on this one i%27m afraid. This girl has the right to wear any bloody thing she wants to lectures%2C the only silly aspect is that she is sueing her parents. I went to O.A.U and i know for a fact that lecturers there are demi-gods and do whatever they please. I along with numerous friends have been victims of the eccentricities of lecturers so i can empathise totally with Azeeza. There is also a famous case of a cross dresser called Dapo in O.A.U %28after my time%29 in the Law department%2C i heard stories of how a particular lecturer refused to allow him in the lectures cos he was dressed practicaly in drag %28As a Woman%29. Now%2C this is simply a case of misuse of power. Irrespective of this mans belief%2C he does not have any right to exclude anybody from lecture or victimize anyone - same goes for all lecturers that victimize Azeeza.%0D%0A%0D%0AYour arguements about Arabic naming%2C is strange to say the least%2C people should name their children whatever they want to%2C what has that got to do with Azeeza%27s case%3F I wont even go into the %27Gazing%27%0D%0Aarguement because it is a non-starter. I%27m as against Sharia as the next person but i feel%2C individuals should be protected under the law and allowed to wear whatever%2C worship whatever associate with whoever e.t.c. I know that logic is lost in Zamfara for example but must we also be guilty of teh same thing down South%3F 
96|17|95|||||RE%3A To all moslem History buffs.To  Akin Faloye|myself||05:33:56|04/04/2002|I am going deviate from my usual self.I fully understand the fact that we are trying to dispute Faloye%27s obssesive efforts to portray islam as a religion of violence and i think we have done our best%2C let people who are sensible who have been followong this debates come to their own conclusions.Some are objective%2C some seemingly objective  people amongst them i am sorry to note that are still grossly biased and tend to side with Faloye%27s blind and empty  arguments%2C so be it.%0D%0AFaloye you hate islam and moslems%2C you will not be the first person%2C and you are not the only one%2C and there will be many more after you...unfortunate but the truth.%0D%0ASince you started your attacks and your challenges on moslems%2C there has not been a single question that was not answered...but of course you will disgree with that%2Ceven your last question  was modified i beleive because it made more sense to the modifier%2Cand still an answer was provided.%0D%0AWhen it came to challenges about inconsistencies in the bible the last time%2C FOLAMI wrote a concise and brilliant piece that you had  no answer to%2C and you resorted to insults just like you are begining to do now.When Woli Elijah%2C came with that issue of the beast with %22666%22 and ascribed it to Jesus%2C i held my breadth to see which moslem will jump on the wagon and start gloating but i was proud to note that not a single moslem gloated about it.When moses 3000 posted that thread %22 the truth about islam%22%2C you were the first on the scene to gloat%2Csurely that is telling you something about islam and moslems%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AI innocently thought that this will be a discussion that we will come out of learning something about one another%2C but i was wrong.%0D%0ASo i put it to you%2C Faloye%2C let us agree that all that you say about islam is %22True%22%2C and i mean everything%2C even the gross misinformation%2C and the shamefull reasoning on your part%2Clet us say that you are right%2C what do you want to do about it%3FHow are you going to exterminate islam or moslems from the face of the earth%3F%0D%0AOr are you making it a life crusade to make the world see islam for what it is according to Faloye%3F starting with calling it a cult%3F and then...... a word of caution about insulting the prophet%2C one word..Salman Rushdie%21 As far as i am concerned and i say this for a lot of moslems i don%27t care what you say or think about the prophet%2C it hurts no doubt about that%2C but not many people will let you get away with it.%0D%0AI see each time it is pointed out about christainity%2C the sodomising of ten year old boys%2C the much publicised sex scandals rocking the churches world wide%2C the millions being spent to buy silences from victims%2Cyou start foaming from the corners of your mouth%2C why is that%3F you are distanceng yourslef from Clinton simply because of his misdeeds%28sex scandal%29%2C according to you he is not a christain%3F Faloye Jesus Christ would have been ashmaed of you as a christain%2C as i am sure  he is%2C remember Mary Magdalene%3F%0D%0AI am very proud to be a moslem%2C and i will always be able to raise my head any where to say that %22 I am a moslem %22%2C islam is contuing to grow from strength to strength%2C and there is not a damn thing you or any one can do about it.%0D%0AWe are human just like any one else in the world.We would at times be victims%2C agressors%2C and even passive in dealing with people%2C it is human nature.Islam %28religion%29 is suppose to make us better people%2C make us control our anger%2Cbuild our ability to forgive%2Ckindness to parents%2Cfairness in dealings with people in all walks of life%2Cgive to the poor from what i have%2C desist from being lured by worldly things%2Cpray%2C be steadfast%2Cand the list goes on and on%2Cas long as most people aspire to do those and more%2C i am satisfied.And all those that i listed are different forms of %22JIHAD%22.%0D%0AIF all moslems now stop responing to your trash what will you do%3F how are you going to feed that obssesion%3F%0D%0AI AM A MUSLIM.What does that make me Faloye%3F A cult member%2C dumb%2C a bastard%2C and so on%2C i can not remember your other words of insults%2Cand SO WHAT%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F%3F
97|17|95|||||To Papiluwe.|Akinola Faloye||22:54:00|04/04/2002|Papiluwe%2C I like to respond to you first%2C because of the way you presented your opposition to my position on Azeezah%27s case.%0D%0A%0D%0AThere are issues that decent people can vigorously debate%2C but over which they do not have to divide%2C I think that the issue at hand is one of them. For me personally%2C the introduction of any article of religious connotation into the public at large%2C is a binary issue. The society either do it all the way%2C or don%27t do it at all. I never see any gray area on religious matters.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen you wrote that those of us in the South do not have to stoop to the level of stupidity and ignorance and intolerance of those Northern moslem leaders%2C you put your finger right on what my concern is. If those of us in the South insist that RELIGION should be personal and private%2C the signal we will be sending to those in the North is that we respect the right of everybody to PRIVATELY practise their faith%2C no matter what that faith is. My concern with preferential treatment for any member of any religious group%2C is slippery slope.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen the butcher of Zamfara first introduced a full blown Sharia%2C the leadership of the current administration told the world then%2C that it was a fad that would soon go out of style. They told us that it would soon %22fizzle out%22. But instead of it fizzling out%2C it metastasized. The day that Alhaaaaaji Sani was allowed to introduce Sharia with much fanfare%2C without any challenges from the Federal Government%2C was the day that the Constitution of Nigeria ceased to exist. It was also the day that Nigeria had a funeral for common sense.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe worth of a good soldier is never known in time of peace. When the UNITY of our Nation  called for much needed soldiers%2C  our leaders scattered all over the place like rats on a sinking ship. When Northern moslems imposed the full Islamic law on all non-moslems in their States%2C they effectively tore the fabric of our Constitution. It is too late for them to now turn around%2C to use the same Constitution as a defence for preferential treatment for YET another moslem. If the GOOSE of that preferential treatment is not good enough for the non-moslems in Zamfara and Sokoto%2C it should not be good enough for the GANDER of Azeezah in OAU. With that kind of comparison%2C one might assume that the South is being vindictive%2C but please read on.%0D%0A%0D%0AToday%2C the Test case is Azeezah vs OAU. Once a precedent is set%2C the slippery slope kicks in. And tomorrow%2C it is going to be another Azeezah at Baps Academy in Obanikoro. The day after%2C it is going to be yet another Azeezah at Olivet Heights in Oyo. If Azeezah%2C while wearing purdah%2C gets into a fight with another student%2C and that student tears up the purdah%2C Azeezah might claim that the student did so because purdah was Islamic%2C especially if the student is a Christian. If Azeezah is able to convince some other moslems at OAU that the action of her opponent was anti Islamic%2C you have a war on your hand. But if Azeezah wears the same exact purdah to lecture%2C but without the religious connotation%2C tearing it up by another student in a fight%2C will not take on a life of its own. And at this juncture%2C I need to inform you that I agree with you that she is free to wear whatever she wants to wear%2C provided it does not have a religious connotation. If the Igbo driver that was murdered because he supposedly drove over a Qur%27an%2C had driven over the entire collection of Encyclopedia Brittanica%2C he would have been alive today. The motivation of those that murdered him was the religious connotation attached to the Qur%27an.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf I as a Christian wears an ordinary gold chain in an Ahmadiyyah college in Nigeria%2C and then have it broken in a fight by a moslem student%2C there is no big deal. If however%2C I decide to add a CRUCIFIX to that same gold chain%2C its meaning is now totally different. It signifies my association with a group of people that believe in Christianity. If that same chain is now broken by a moslem student%2C even if the crucifix is still in one piece%2C I now have a reason to ask for help from those who share my Faith%2C because the broken chain will now be seen as a SYMBOL of Christianity which the moslem takes offence to. Bear in mind that the assertion may not be true%2C but believe me when I submit to you that the damage would have been done.%0D%0A%0D%0AI believe it was in January this year%2C at JFK airport in New York%2C when an incident involving a female moslem wearing hijab occured. In that incident%2C the moslem refused to take off her hijab for security check. The security guard took it off anyway. The moslem considered such action by the guard as an affront on Islam. American Moslem Arab community agreed with her%2C and sued on her behalf. The ACLU %28 American Civil Liberty Union%2C affectionately referred to by others as American Criminal Lovers Union%29%2C joined in the lawsuit which is still pending as of today. All of these would have been avoided if the moslem was just wearing an ORDINARY EARTHLY SCARF%21 Her hair would still have been protected%2C and she would still have looked MODEST.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf a Jew fights a Jew%2C and yarmulkas come off%2C no big deal. But if a Jew fights a moslem%2C and yarmulka comes off%2C there is going to be a big deal. One can never underestimate the SIGNIFICANCE and the ASSOCIATED POWER of any GARMENT designated as RELIGIOUS%21 A priestly collar has more significance and more power than the ordinary collar of my shirt%21%0D%0A%0D%0AOn the issue of different names%2C I say the same thing%3B I agree with you. The point that I was laboriously trying to make though is this%3A I do not know of ANY moslem without an Arabic name%2C regardless of whether the moslem is an Arab or not. I know a lot of Christians from different parts of the world who can not be identified as such by virtue of their names. My beef is not limited to JUST the Arabic names that moslems carry around. If you read the Qur%27an as an Arab%2C you have to be almost INSANE not to be a moslem. The Qur%27an praises the Arabs very very well%2C especially Arab men. Moslems are of course free to carry any names they want. My quibble about it is limited to the practice of Islam. I see the quasi-forced adoption of those Arabic names%2C by non-arabic moslems%2C as yet another attempt of the Arabs to export their CULTURE all around the globe. I will discuss this in more detail some other time.%0D%0A%0D%0APapiluwe%2C if we were voting in the Assembly on this issue%2C I would probably lose. But that is the  essence of true Democracy%2C and I respect it%21%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A
98|18|97|||||RE%3A To Akinola|PapiLuwe||04:38:49|04/05/2002|From what i understand you are against people wearing any thing of religious leanings in a University environment %28correct me if i%27m wrong%29. However there is no law against any body doing this - at least in the South. My arguement is - as long as there is no law%2C people should be able to wear what they want no matter how distasteful it may seem to others. Like i said i went through the Nigerian university system%2C and i know first hand how arrogant and cruel the lecturers can be. Government already has enough to do%2C we should not get caught up in a Big Brother scenario were people are told what manner of dressing is appropriate or not%2C and we most definitely do not need lecturer%27s determining what student wear to lecture theaters. I most definitely share your frustration that this is not reciprocated in Zamfara State for example%2C and people are forced to wear Turbans and veils but if we do the same%2C we loose moral superiority on this issue. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe seperation of state and religion to me is a no - brainer%2C it goes without saying that mixing the two just doesn%27t make any sense%2C but can we really blame the ordinary Muslims%3F We can only blame the Government that allows two sets of laws for citezens of the same Country. My question to my Myself%2C Folami and Joki is%3A Why do you feel the need to live under Muslim laws%3F Surely it is possible to live anywhere in the World%2C including the United States and Australia and still be good Muslims%3F   
99|19|98|||||To myself.|Akinola Faloye||16:46:28|04/05/2002|Myself%2C here is my response to you.%0D%0A%0D%0AFirst let me inform you%2C as well as other moslems on this site%2C that the purpose of my pieces is NOT to change the minds of moslems. It is rather my personal attempt to vent my anger at the cult of Islam. I am quite aware of the abrasiveness of my pieces on Islam%2C it is NOT the right approach to take if one intends to proselytize to others. You moslems have described the introduction of Sharia as a political tool. If that is true%2C all the responses that you are going to get from me will be political in nature%2C and you better read them without assigning religion to them.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn your piece to me%2C you wrote the following%3A %22 a word of caution about insulting the prophet%2C one word.. Salman Rushdie %22. I thought that %22Salman Rushdie%22 would be two words%2C but what do I know%3F Is that supposed to be some sort of SUBTLE THREAT%3F Did you know that you just put yourself on a wanted list by threatening me on the internet%3F You suggested that you might not hurt me%2C but others might. You just PROVED my point about the attitude of you  moslems%3B you hate FREEDOM but you love VIOLENCE%21%0D%0A%0D%0AIn the eighties in America%2C Flint %28 he is the guy that built an empire on selling pornography %29%2C told the world that Reverend Jerry Falwell had sex with his %28Jerry%27s%29 mother. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court of America%2C and Reverend Falwell lost%2C even though the claim of Flint is false. Jerry Falwell did not threaten Flint. If you describe me as a bastard%2C I may be offended and describe you in return%2C using not so few adjectives%2C but I dare not threaten you. Hollywood movie makers have made so many movies that put JESUS CHRIST%2C THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD%2C in a horrible light. But have you heard the Vatican City offering three million dollars for the killer%28s%29 of any Hollywood movie producers%3F The threat that you linked to Salman Rushdie%27s case is real because of what had happened in the past%2C and I will give you couple examples%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A1. In July of 1991%2C Hitoshi Igarachi%2C the man that translated Salman Rushdie%27s book %22 The Satanic Verses %22 into Japanese was stabbed to death in Tokyo. Abdul Quddus%2C the senior vice president of Britain%27s moslem league said the following%3A %22 The attacks are justified because people translating the book are also INSULTING the faith.%22 I emphasised the word %22insulting%22 in that quote%2C because that is the EXACT word that you also used.%0D%0A%0D%0A2. In Milan Italy%2C another moslem brutally stabbed Ettore Capriolo%2C for having translated the same Satanic verses into Italian. Ettore was lucky enough to live to tell his story.%0D%0A%0D%0AI believe it was Abraham Lincoln that said%3B %22 Give me Liberty or give me death %22. I have received quite a few covert private emails%2C from some angry moslems on this site. Some I still have%2C some I have deleted. And no matter what you dumb moslems do%2C you will NEVER be able to stop me from writing the TRUTH about Islam and your prophet Mohammed. There is no need for anyone to add drama to the history of Mohammed by lying about it. The TRUTH about the history of Mohammed is strange enough%21%0D%0A%0D%0AI know that you moslems are NOT going to believe me when I tell you that I really love your prophet Mohammed. What is there for a man NOT to like about Mohammed %28swat%29%3F He gave men the hope to look forward to their old age by marrying a ten year old child at an advanced age. What kind of man would not like that%3F Of all the three things he liked the most in life %28according to his Sunnah %29%2C sex was number two. What kind of man would not like that%3F There is SOLID evidence that he married NINE wives. What kind of man would not like that%3F etc.%0D%0A%0D%0Amyself%2C you suggested that moslems are restrained in their attacks of Christianity by not responding to Woli Elijah%27s thread on %22666%22. And you then branded me a fanatic by pointing out the fact that I was the first to respond to Moses 3000 thread about Islam. Let me make two quick points here. 1. I do not know why moslems did not respond%2C because I do not read minds. But I will tell you that their lack of response CAN NOT be due to their tolerance of Christianity. The evidence is there that they were not at all restrained in the past. All you have to do is go to the %22SEARCH%22 page of this site%2C and searh the topics in all the fora. You will see some threads in which moslems were seriously bashing Christianity%2C but you will not see any piece%2C written by a Christian%2C to THREATEN a moslem. Violence is an integral part of Islam%2C and that is why moslems are the way they are%21 In the words of the French philosopher Rannin%3F %22 Moslems are the first victim of Islam%22%21%21%21 How so true%21 And 2%2C I believe that moslems have now gotten the message that Christians on this site ARE NOT going to let them get away with half baked lies about Christianity. We will offer you proofs and evidence%2C but you guys have NOTHING to offer. And that is why you guys get upset. You are like a frustrated stammerer in search of the appropriate words. Regardless of what you guys may say%2C the fact will still remain that even though Islam and Christianity  may be FALSE%2C BOTH can NOT be TRUE%21 And this is where proof end evidence become ABSOLUTELY necessary%2C and you moslems better start searching or manufacturing some%21%0D%0A%0D%0ABecause of your subtle threat on my life%2C culminating from my opinions of your prophet Mohammed%2C I leave you with the following quote out of the book %22 We believe in one God %22 by Annemarie Schimmel and Abdoldjavad Falaturi%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%22 Muslims will allow attacks on Allah%3A there are atheists and atheistic publications%2C and rationalistic societies%3B but to disparage Muhammad will provoke from even the most %27liberal%27 sections of the community a fanaticism of blazing vehemence.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AThe question for you moslems is%3B Do you worship Allah or do you worship Mohammed%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AIslam is a disgusting cult%21%21%21%0D%0A
100|20|99|||||RE%3A To myself.|jokiIrun||20:30:25|04/05/2002|   Akin%2C%0D%0A%0D%0A     I have gone through your last two postings thrice.However%2Ci could not make any sensible thing out of it.It is much like the bray of an %23%23%23%23%23%2Cor the rantings of a frustrated orphan.Why do you choose to reduce yourself to this miserable level of unproductive reasonnings%3FYou always asume the posture of a fighter%2Cbut who are you fighting exactly%3FIslam%3FProphet Mohammed%28SAW%29%3FAll the muslems of the world%3FJust tell me%2Cwho you are fighting.If you do not know%2Call you have succeeded in achieving so far has been to make yourself an unhappy and a despicable wretch%2Call for nothing.%0D%0A%0D%0A    I have searched through the history%2Cand i%27am yet to see anybody who has ever embarked on this ruinous path that you have chosen to thread and come out of it victoriously.Nobody has ever won a war against the way of God Almighty%2Cno enemy of Islam has ever vanquished the faith%2Cbecause it is the way of the Almighty God.That is why in the face of the most sever adversity%2CIslam is growing from strength to strength.That is how God wants it and there is nothing anybody can do about it.Ten million of your type may try%2Cbut they will all end in the way of their predecessor in history.It is not my wish that you go down in history in the way of past enemies of Islam%2Cbut the dog that is destined to stray%2Cwill never hear the whistle of the hunter.We have tried our possible best to steer you off this course of pardition%2Cbut you remain as obstinate as a goat.Well%2C the choice is yours%2Cbut nevertheless%2Cwe will not stop to pray for you%2Cmay God not let your head reject prayers%2Camin.See you%2Cgood luck.  
101|21|100|||||RE%3A To myself.|Jason||21:44:30|04/05/2002|I actually think Akinola Faloye has actually one this debate.  You see%2C I did think he was extremely Islamophobic in the beginning%2C and irrational.%0D%0A%0D%0AHowever%2C when he said negative things about Muhammed%2C myself did subly threaten Faloye%27s life.  Thus proving Falye is correct%2C and the mentality of Muslims are barbaric . And I am glad this exchange occurred on this forum%2C for the entire world to see.  Including various governments around the world.%0D%0Apart of the reason I will start Arabic classes i nthe fall is because I intend to read the Qura nand Hadiths for myself%2C and determine to what degree violence is a part of Islam.%0D%0A%0D%0AFalye is quite corect in saying that the leadership of Muslim world could act to stop this%2C if intended to . The Organization of Islamic Confederence%2C of which Nigeria is a member%28headquarted in Saudi Arabia%29%2C could speak out against the tensions in the Sudan and Nigeria.%0D%0A%0D%0AHowever%2C Muslims of Nigeria%2C when do things like threaten Faloye%27s life%2C think of the long term impact.  You may cause Western governemnts from allowing more Muslims to enter the West%21  China had already banned Muslims or Jews coming to China%2C do you wish all non Muslim nations to do the same%3F  In the age of atomic weapons%2C do you wish to bring the world into world war III%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A
102|22|101|||||RE%3A To Faloye.|myself||23:05:07|04/06/2002|%0D%0AWhen i read your response to my peace i was very amused.Typical of you  to twist and take statement out of content to suit your over inflated ego.This is what i said%2C%0D%0A%22a word of caution about insulting the prophet%2C one word..Salman Rushdie%21 As far as i am concerned and i say this for a lot of moslems i don%27t care what you say or think about the prophet%2C it hurts no doubt about that%2C but not many people will let you get away with it%22.%0D%0A%0D%0ABy saying that i am on a wanted list on the internet is suppose to mean what%2C a threat%3F to prove what%2C your point about islam%3FWell go ahead and prove what you like....i do not CARE%21%21%0D%0AYou hate islam and moslems%2C there is no need to prove that%2C unfortunately there is nothing you can do about islam or the moslems like i have repeatedly said%2C so you see you are on mission that is bound for waste.As for me this is the end of any discussion about islam with you.Have a nice day.%0D%0A
103|23|102|||||RE%3A To Myself|sholaz||10:03:35|04/07/2002|Myself%2C%0D%0AI was waiting for your response to Akin%27s piece which I knew you would before making my own contribution to it.From your previous postings%2CI do believe you are not the kind of person that belongs to the death to Salman Rushdie group%2C but it was the INSINUATION that gave Akin the impetus to come to that conclusion and I do not fault him on that.Caution should be the word and do not give up on any religious discourse with him since we all gain in different ways from the exchanges.My own style is that when I feel we are repeating ourselves and have overflogged a particular topic%2C I put an end to it opting out from any further discussion on it but a blanket ban will serve no useful purpose and besibes there are others who might even learn one or two things from the debates.Furthermore%2Cthe fact that you do not agree on a topic does not mean that you can not agree on other topics.Have a nice day.   
104|23|102|||||RE%3A To Faloye.|AGSOBA69||13:32:57|04/07/2002|Myself%2C you did threaten Akinola%27s life by %5Bi%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22red%22%5D%22a word of caution about insulting the prophet%2C one word..Salman Rushdie%21%22%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D  And that is what he has been yapping about.%0D%0A%0D%0AIs that your %28Moslems%92%29 way%3F  Anyone who dares to write or say anything bad about your dumb%2C false prophet pig-head Mohammed %28MHRIH%29%2C you threaten to kill him%2Fher.  Haven%27t Moslems said worse about Jesus Christ%3F  And did the Christians rise up in arms%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AYou guys just need to chill and keep your religion to yourself.%0D%0A%0D%0AI just hope that Agabi does not relent%2C and then I should like to see how your stupid Sharia would be practiced without its barbaric stings.  Mohammed %28MHRIH%29 would just be rolling in his burning grave seeing his laws are being challenged by more intelligent%2C more civilized beings.%0D%0A%0D%0AI was hoping you would at least own to your slip up of emotional outburst and repent%2C but that would be against Islam%2C wouldn%92t it%3F  Killing is your only ticket to your Islamic %93paradise%2C%94 isn%92t it%3F%0D%0A
105|24|104|||||RE%3A To Faloye.|jokiIrun||19:56:26|04/07/2002|AGSOBA69%0D%0A%0D%0A   I have been wondering whether you would not come to the assistance of Akin%2C your drawning acolyte%2Cwho has been at the recieving end of an all round bashing and verbal salvos here.The day you stop backing this your warring baby is the day that America would stop goading Israel to mass murder the Arabs in cold blood%2Cand that is the day that the world would heave a sigh of relieve%2Csince our world would then be able to nurse a genuine hope of having a lasting peace and decorum.%0D%0A%0D%0A    I%27am not surprised at all at your qualifying prophet Mohammed%28SAW%29 with some unedifying languages.It is not new.Also not new is the fact that the efforts of your time from the time imemorial%2Chas not ebbed the glorious image of the prophet of God%2Ceven by an inch.%0D%0A%0D%0A  You see%2Cit is unfortunate that you people are Yoruba men and yet you have so far failed to learn any lesson from the wealth of wisdom and knowledge for which the race is reknowned.It is part of our many legends in Yorubaland%2Cthat the wisdom of a worrior is determined by his ability to assess the situation of the front and then knows how to apply the principle of tactical withdrawal%2Cso as to be able to redefine his priorities and then plan for a new set of ways and means.In the days of Ogedengbe%2Cthe legendary worrior of Ijeshaland%2Che had a trumpeter with whom he always go to the front to fight.At any critical moment on the front%2Cwhen it appears that his master would be vanquished%2Cthe trumpeter was used to singing a song with his instrument to caution him.What music%3FLet%27s go%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A      %22Ogedengbe OOOOO%2C%0D%0A      Gbogun-Gboro atiponpon loju ogun%2C%0D%0A      Nje o ba s%27Akin die%2Ck%27oo s%27ogberi die%2C%0D%0A      Tori akii mesu tii koni loko lo.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A     Hail Ogedengbe%2C%0D%0A     The indomintable worrior%2C%0D%0A     May you please put up a little advance and a little retreat%2C%0D%0A     %27Cause no one knows the locust the wrecks one%27s farm.%0D%0A%0D%0A   Even if you are now too Ameriacn to know about this cautionary legend%2Cdon%27t you also take some time off to listen to Sunny Ade%27s music%3FHe says %22Mo%27ja%2Cmo%27sa%2Cl%27an m%27akikanju logun%2C%0D%0A               Akikanju t%27o mo%27ja ti%27o mo%27sa o ose%2C%0D%0A               Iruu won ma nb%27ogun %27bo min lo ni.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A              Ability to know when to fight and when to run is what determines a courageous warrior%2C%0D%0A              A worrior that know only how to fight and not when to run%2Cwhat a pity%2C%0D%0A              Such a worrior would get lost  in another man%27s war.%0D%0A%0D%0A  Even our friend of this site who answers Akin do not know the lessons of these legend.He is ready to fight a war and will never mind if he is vanquished in the process.He even prefers to die in the front.He is thus an Akin%2Cbut definately not a wise one%2Che is also not an Akikanju.%22Such a worrior is destined to get lost in another man%27s war%22.And you%2CAGSOBA69%2Ceven if the short one is not wise%2Chow about the tall one%3FWhy are both of you always sleeping with your heads pointed towards thesame direction at all times%3FWhat a pity%21Well see more of you and godd luck%2Ccheers.      %0D%0A%0D%0A    
106|24|104|||||RE%3A To Agsoba|sholaz||22:11:50|04/07/2002|Agsoba%2C%0D%0AWell%2Cwhat can I say other than that you never know with people.You qualified in my view as one of those who objectively and rationally addressed topics on the site but with this you have lost the moral right to accuse anyone of intolerance on this site but like they say%2C it is a free world%21 
107|25|106|||||Response To Joki and Sholaz%21|AGSOBA69||22:54:57|04/07/2002|Whatever you guys may think of me is inconsequential.  Neither of you condemned the threat against another person by one of you.  To you it is not a problem because such is a devolution from your Islamic teaching and condoned by the Moslems.  Well%2C I cannot condone such threat.%0D%0A%0D%0AI have implored you guys to act maturely when it comes to criticisms of your religion and your prophet %28MHRIH%29.  For as long as your religion is in the public arena%2C you shall continue to be at the receiving end of the rod.  Such is the nature of public life.  %5Bfont color%3D%22red%22%5DIf you can%27t stand the heat%2C then get out of the kitchen%21%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%5Bb%5DIt is terrorism %28or at least immaturity%29 when your only response to criticism of what you hold dear is death threat.%5B%2Fb%5D%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen Myself asked Akinola to remember Salman Rushdie%2C what do you suppose he meant%3F  Have you asked him%3F  How do you expect me to take that%3F  A friendly introduction to Rushdie%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AWhy do you suppose the Yorubas say%2C %5Bfont color%3D%22green%22%5D%22Omode t%27o ba gbagbe iya ana%2C yio je%27mi%3F%22%5B%2Ffont%5D  Translated%2C %22A child who forgets yesterday%92s punishment%2C is surely heading for another one.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AIn essence%2C you are %22asking%22 Akinola to %5Bu%5D%5Bb%5Dremember%5B%2Fb%5D%5B%2Fu%5D what happened to someone else who did something similar%2C and you don%27t consider that a threat%3F  Well%2C I do%21%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen you issue such %5Bu%5DWARNING%5B%2Fu%5D%2C especially with respect to a particular fatal incidence%2C it is a death threat%3B it is intolerance%3B it is terrorism%2C and it is unacceptable%21%0D%0A
108|26|107|||||RE%3A Response To Faloye|myself||01:17:25|04/08/2002|I unreservedly apoligise for my utterance in that piece%2C i did not mean to threaten your life.%0D%0AThe issue at hand is not diputing the fact that  some moslems are violent%2Cbut that islam permits it%2C but still i am very sorry%2C i must have been carried away.I still want to take a dig at you but it will spoil the apology so i will do that in my next piece.
109|27|108|||||RE%3A Response To Agsoba69|myself||01:30:13|04/08/2002|%22Is that your %28Moslems%92%29 way%3F Anyone who dares to write or say anything bad about your dumb%2C false prophet pig-head Mohammed %28MHRIH%29%2C you threaten to kill him%2Fher. Haven%27t Moslems said worse about Jesus Christ%3F And did the Christians rise up in arms%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AYou guys just need to chill and keep your religion to yourself.%0D%0A%0D%0AI just hope that Agabi does not relent%2C and then I should like to see how your stupid Sharia would be practiced without its barbaric stings. Mohammed %28MHRIH%29 would just be rolling in his burning grave seeing his laws are being challenged by more intelligent%2C more civilized beings.%0D%0A%0D%0AI was hoping you would at least own to your slip up of emotional outburst and repent%2C but that would be against Islam%2C wouldn%92t it%3F Killing is your only ticket to your Islamic %93paradise%2C%94 isn%92t it%3F%22%0D%0A%0D%0AMy initial reaction to your piece was shock%2Cbut then i sat and thought about it and i remember in the past you were also a champion of abuses and name calling%2Cand to think that you had changed would only be a delusion%2Cit is just people like Sholaz who probably have not read your past responses to anything islam or moslems that will be suprised%2C but alas he has seen you for what you are.%0D%0A%0D%0AThank you for the points you high lighted or should i say for your %22wisdom%3F%22%2C or better still for stooping to your low level again.  %0D%0A%0D%0ATo Sholaz%0D%0A%0D%0AThanks mate.Hearing it from Joki and then yourself made me realise that i am taking the issue too serious%2Ci am not used to giving in to  emotional outburts%2C but i got carried away%2Ci do not want to be consumed by hatred like Faloye and the only way  i thought i could do that was stay away%2C if you read our exchange in the past%2C i have been so patient%2Cit is just that i am running out of it with Faloye%2Cbut i will be cautious%2Cbut pls note i did not threaten his life%2C it just sounds so.Be seeing more of you.%0D%0A
110|28|109|||||RE%3A Response To Agsoba69|AGSOBA69||13:13:40|04/08/2002|Myself et al.%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AYou never cease to amaze me with your %93oh%2C poor me%94 cry.  You love to make victims of yourselves even when there are only adversaries of opinion.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%92ve said it before but you guys just won%92t listen.  As long as you continue to use Islam%2C the Koran%2C Mohammed %28MHRIH%29 and Allah to buttress your points%2C I shall continue challenge them with unflattering words that you may not find palatable.  %0D%0A%0D%0AThere is a %5Bb%5DBIIIIG%5B%2Fb%5D different between calling my opponents names %5Bu%5DAND%5B%2Fu%5D disparaging%2Frefuting their points.  Go back and re-read ALL my postings%2C I do not engage in name-calling%2C but I shall challenge the credibility of your supporting points.  You put Islam%2C the Koran%2C Mohammed %28MHRIH%29 and Allah in harm%92s way by becoming so emotional when it comes to that so-called prophet and anything Islamic.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you don%92t want anything disparaging said about them%2C keep them out of public arena.  You can%92t have it both ways.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you guys can%92t keep up with Akinola%92s unfaltering stand%2C why not simply quit instead of threatening his life%3F%0D%0A
111|26|107|||||RE%3A To Agsoba|sholaz||13:17:39|04/08/2002|Agsoba%2C%0D%0AMy response to Myself%27s piece preceded yours so it can not be true that we condone such intolerance like you wrote.You can revisit message 103 to confirm what I am alluding to.My conclusion is that you were just waiting for a slip like that to unleash your bottled up rage and seething anger on us.Like we Yorubas will say%2C%28eni ti o na ika kan si omolakeji%2Cmerin to ku  a ma je tire%29i.e. a person that points a finger to another person%2Cthe remaining four fingers are pointed towards him%21%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AMyself%2C%0D%0A%27good that you apologised and I do hope lessons have been learnt from this.Logic and emotion most times can not cohabit but I do appreciate what you did because it takes courage to be remorseful especially to one that you know is against you.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A  
112|27|111|||||RE%3A To Agsoba|jokiIrun||15:37:22|04/08/2002| %0D%0ASholaz%2C%0D%0A%0D%0A  Loudable as Myself%27s apologies are.It is only an unjaundiced mind like yours that can acknowledge the maturity and wisdom in it.Don%27t you see the reaction of AGSOBA69 thereto%3FThey are like that and i know them too well.%22Alara ni ara ko ro oun%2Ciwo ni o ku aisun o ku aiwo%22%28A sympathiser that wails more than the bereaved%29.They are like that and by their fruits you shall know them.Enjoy.
114|28|112|||||To Joki%21|AGSOBA69||16:48:17|04/08/2002|Joki%3A%0D%0A%0D%0ABy this%2C %0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22red%22%5D%5Bi%5D%3E%22Alara ni ara ko ro oun%2Ciwo ni o ku aisun o ku aiwo%22%28A sympathiser that wails more than the bereaved%29%2C%22%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0Aare you implying that it is wrong to %5Bb%5D%5BI%5D%22wail%22%5B%2FI%5D%5B%2Fb%5D whenever an injustice rears its ugly head%3F  Aren%92t you doing the same thing %28in a weird way of course%29 with regards to that prophet whatshisname%3F  Aren%27t you going around killing and maiming for your Allah%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AThe whole non-Islamic world %5Bb%5D%5BI%5D%22wailed%22%5B%2FI%5D%5B%2Fb%5D for Safiya so she could live.  I know you Moslems did not cherish that one bit%3B we infidels are messing with the law of your Allah%21  %5Bb%5DI surely hope so%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AYou cannot threaten someone with bodily harm and expect others to just fold their arms and not %5Bb%5D%5BI%5Dwail%21%5B%2FI%5D%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bmarquee behavior%3D%94alternate%94 bgcolor%3D%94green%94%5D%5Bfont color%3D%94yellow%94%5D%5Bi%5DBlessed are those who wail for Justice%21%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Fmarquee%5D%0D%0A
113|27|111|||||To JokiIrun%2C myself %26 sholaz.|Akinola Faloye||16:05:34|04/08/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-02 AT 03:32 PM (GMT+1)]JokiIrun%2C here is a quote of your opening sentence in piece %23105 addressed to AGSOBA69%3A %0D%0A%0D%0A%22 I have been wondering whether you would not come to the assistance of Akin. your drawning acolyte%2C who has been at the receiving end of an all round bashing and verbal salvos here.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AWith that quote%2C I can tell that you REALLY DO NOT KNOW ME AT ALL%21%0D%0AI am not a weakling. I am an able%2C capable and willing participant in this debate. If I have been receiving any sort of bashing%2C it is definitely NEWS to me. What I observed was a healthy disagreement with my view on Azeezah%27s case by Papiluwe. That can hardly be construed as a %22bashing%22. But for someone like you%2C who anticipates the %22destruction%22 of an opponent%2C you will hang on to anything as an evidence of your opponent%27s weakness.%0D%0A%0D%0AEmi o so wipe ki Gambari re ko ma sun rara%2C ko sa ma ti ki iya t%27emi.%0D%0AMeaning%2C%0D%0AIt%27s OK by me for a Gambari  to sing praises in Yoruba language%2C so long as he does not praise my own mother%21%0D%0A%0D%0AAwon afobaje ni a ba fi o j%27oye%2C sugbon won ni o ti le s%27epe ju. Iwo ni Olorun o ni je ko da%27a fun eni to wi bee.%0D%0AMeaning%2C%0D%0AThe chief makers tell you that they will prefer to make you a chief%2C except for the fact that people complain that you curse too much. And you tell them%3B %22 may God punish who said so%22. %0D%0A%0D%0AEverything that I have written so far about Islam has been corroborated by your ignorance of your faith%2C as well as your willingness to IGNORE an outburst of a threatening statement directed at me by your fellow moslem%2C while focussing your attention on a person who chastised the moslem for his statement. Only cult members do that%21%0D%0A%0D%0ANews media are reporting this morning that some Islamic militants killed 8 Hindu villagers in India. We still don%27t know why yet. The Israelis are NOT indiscriminately killing Palestinians as you suggested. They are avenging the deaths of many innocent Israelis at the hands of Islamic terrorists. But you moslems have very short memory. You never remember the aggressors in a conflict. I have told you in so many words in the past%2C that you moslems are ALWAYS the aggressors in any conflict%2C anywhere in the world. The moslem Turks ruled the orthodox Christian Greeks for over 350 years. Never once did the Greeks engage in suicide bombing of innocent civilians. They waited until the time was right for them to kick out the Turks%2C the CONVENTIONAL way. Why can%27t the Palestinians do the same thing%3F They can%27t%2C because they are moslems%21%0D%0A%0D%0AThere is nothing glorious about the image of your prophet Mohammed as you stated. Absolutely NOTHING%21 He was so rotten that even Allah has to ask him to ask for forgiveness for his fault. Qu%27ran 40%3A55. If you want to fight and die in defence of his name%2C you are free to do that%2C but you have to look for somebody else to kill you%2C not I.%0D%0A%0D%0Amyself%2C I accept your apology. I%2C however%2C still stand FIRMLY on my belief%2C that Violence is an INTEGRAL part of Islam. You can not have one without the other. Of course%2C peace loving moslems out there are going to vehemently disagree with me. I am not against any individual moslem. My beef is with the AUTHORITY of Islam%3B the Qu%27ran. There is no way in the world that anyone%2C having read the Qu%27ran%2C can say with straight face that Islam is a faith of peace. It is NOT%21%0D%0A%0D%0Asholaz. A lot of people all over the world are quite aware of what Islam teaches. Most people%2C myself included%2C do not complain UNTIL moslems start killing innocent people ALL OVER THE WORLD IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. If you moslems on this site disagree with what other moslems do in the name of Islam%2C you need to take it up with them. Mine is to complain%2C yours is to fix the problem. Even Yasser Arafat would not denounce suicide bombing in the name of Islam. And Saddam Inasane is paying %2425%2C000 to the families of suicide bombers in Israel. That action reminds me of a Qu%27ranic passage that asks moslems to kill as many Jews as possible.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd what the hell are those bastard terrorist moslems doing inside the Church of Nativity in Bethlehem%2C trying to avoid Israeli bullets%3F Aren%27t there mosques for them to hide in%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AMoslems please go get them out of there before they pollute the birth place of Jesus Christ%2C with the shout of Allahu Akbar%21%21%21
115|28|113|||||RE%3A To JokiIrun%2C myself %26 sholaz.|PapiLuwe||19:40:58|04/08/2002|I am extremely glad Myself apologized because it was totaly out of character - and like Joki said it takes a strong man to apologize%2C it also takes a gracious man to accept. There is understandably a lot of passion being exhibited by the respondents but i am positive that none of us would even dream of physically harming the other.
117|29|115|||||RE%3A To Papiluwe|sholaz||20:16:42|04/08/2002|Papiluwe%2C%0D%0AWell said and I believe that should be the spirit here.I believe that we do not have to agree on certain issues but we can project our respective views with a sense of decency and decorum. 
116|28|113|||||RE%3A To Akin Faloye|sholaz||20:01:31|04/08/2002|Akin%2C as of now%2C I can tell you that religion is the least of the problems besetting the palestinians.Your knowledge of the palestinians is obviously flawed because 30 percent of the population are xtians%2Cthe immediate past palestinian chief negotiator%2CHanan Ashrawi is a xtian%2CArafat%27s wife was a xtian just to give you an idea of the palestinian society.Bethlehem itself is mostly inhabited by the xtian population of Palestine and Israel so to say that the muslims are the one in the church of nativity is missing the point.Theirs is a nationalistic problem so giving it a religious connotation is quite mischievious.   
118|29|116|||||RE%3A To Akin Faloye|Akinola Faloye||21:20:03|04/08/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-02 AT 09:34 PM (GMT+1)]Sholaz%2C my position is very accurate. The current Intifadah is dubbed Al-haqsa Intifadah. Remember the Al-haqsa mosque%3F I can refer to those holed up inside the Church of Nativity as moslems because%2C they themselves said so. The News media refer to them as %22armed Islamic fundamentalists%22%2C and when they spoke to the world via a satellite phone%2C they did not deny such description. Frankly%2C I wish that those Church leaders within the Church would take advantage of being held hostage%2C by doing their best to CONVERT those moslems into Christians. Wouldn%27t it be WONDERFUL if those armed Islamic fundamentalists were to come out of that Church proclaiming the GOSPELS of JESUS CHRIST%3F If that happens%2C may be all other Churches in the area should just fling their doors open for more armed Islamic fundamentalists%21%21%21 Wow%2C I am a dreamer%2C aren%27t I%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AI am quite aware of the population of Christians in Palestine. I do not believe that it is 30%25 as you wrote. The real figure is actually closer to 2%25 %28two per cent%29%2C but you will never know it from the makeup of Yasser Arafat%27s administration. Most of the people that stand next to him in conferences %28 when he was able to have conferences %29 are Christians%2C who had been supporters of previous Intifadahs. Those few Christians are essentially alienated by the moslems%2C when they %28moslems%29 decided to name this current Intifadah%3B Al-haqsa. The idea of putting Christians in the forefront of issues by moslem leaders in the Middle East%2C is not being done by only Yasser Arafat. Remember Tariq Aziz%3F He was the Iraqi ambassador to the U.N during the Gulf war. He is also a Christian.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe few Christians in Palestine are actually in a far WORSE situation than the moslems are. Why%3F Because those Christians believe that these confrontations are SPIRITUAL in origin. They know that ANYONE that fights against the Jews over the land in question%2C is fighting against God%27s plan. But it is also the land upon which they must live until they die. What is a Palestinian Christian to do in this situation%3F Sholaz%2C are you sure that Yasser Arafat%27s wife is a Christian%3F I am not sure about that. But if you are sure%2C I am willing to take your word for it.%0D%0A%0D%0ASholaz%2C because of what people like Papiluwe and AGSOBA69 have said on this forum%2C I am willing to extend an olive branch to moslems by abandoning my mantra. I have abandoned it in the past%2C but I had to revive it because Moslems kept making statements of zero historical credibility%2C about their faith. I will not however%2C abandon the TRUTH about Islam. I have NEVER told a single lie about Islam%2C and I intend to maintain that course%21 Moslems are FREE to tell the TRUTH%2C the whole truth and nothing but the truth%2Cabout Christianity.%0D%0A%0D%0AI am not interested in murderous Christian or group of Christians. If you can however find a single verse in the Holy Bible that supports murder%2C please do not hesitate to bring it to the attention of Christians. And I promise to do the same about Islam%3B it is only FAIR%21%21%21
119|30|118|||||RE%3A To Akin Faloye|jokiIrun||22:51:05|04/08/2002| %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AAkin%2C%0D%0A   What i see as the meat of your posting above is your demand for %22If you can however find a single verse in the Holy Bible that surpports murder%2Cplease do not hesitate to bring it to the attention of christians.---%22.%0D%0A%0D%0A   I have a binary view of this your challenge.First%2Ci see it as an effort being made by a christian who is oblivious of the contents of his Holy book%2Cand therefore making a genuine desire to know%2Cfrom any source.This is quite commendable as it is a very possitive and wise move.But i also see it as a challenge%2Cthrown at the Muslems by a Christian Bible thumper who is so full of himself with the delusion that his Holy book does not contain %22a single verse that surpports murder%22.If this is the case%2Cthen it is denouceable as it is preposterous%2Cabsord and foolish.%0D%0A%0D%0A   Whichever one is the case%2Cyou can be sure that there are people who will pick up the challenge and feed you with more than the dose for which you ever bargained.I%27am please to read from your ealier posting that you are a lover of a healthy debate.I like to beg you to please keep to this your object of love and be very broad minded%2Cmatured and patient.I need to say this now becase i know you too well.You may loose your head too soon in the course of the %22Healthy debate%22 and then resort to your usual gutter languages%2Cwhich are quite unbecoming of any serious debater.You have thrown the challenge now and i do hope that you will not abandon it mid way%2Cwhen incredibly hard facts  culled out of the so called Holy book of yours begin to stare you in the face.To before warned is to beforearmed o.Watch out.%0D%0A
120|30|118|||||RE%3A To Akin Faloye|sholaz||23:17:17|04/08/2002|Akin%2C%0D%0AI wrote that Arafat%27s wife WAS a xtian and you can confirm that from any source.Obviously she changed her faith after getting married to Arafat and I still stand by my assertion that the xtian population in Palestine is 30 percent%2Cmaybe you are confusing that with the state of Israel where you have 2 percent xtians%2C7 percent muslims and 91 percent judaists.I still say that religion has nothing to do with the Israeli%2Fpalestinian problem%2C like you wrote yourself%2Cit is historical.  
122|31|120|||||RE%3A To Agsoba69|myself||01:19:05|04/09/2002|%22I%92ve said it before but you guys just won%92t listen. As long as you continue to use Islam%2C the Koran%2C Mohammed %28MHRIH%29 and Allah to buttress your points%2C I shall continue challenge them with unflattering words that you may not find palatable.%22 %0D%0A%0D%0AI am pleased to note that that  gives your ego some sort of a boost%2Cand that and other insults are supposed to make %22islam%22 be taken out of the public place%3F%3F%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AMORE GREASE TO YOUR ELBOW%21%21%21%21%0D%0A%0D%0AI am just so pleased you have dropped the charade of acting like someone responsible.%0D%0A%0D%0A
121|30|118|||||RE%3A To Akin Faloye|Jason||01:18:36|04/09/2002|Faloye%2C where in the bible does it say that Jewish rule of Isreal is in God%27s plan%3F  That%27s actually such a racist statement%2C because aside from some Ethiopians%2C Jew-White.  DOn%27t bother to mention the Arab Jews%2C because Isreal is controled by European Jews.  So are arguing that white rule is a God ordained right%3F  I suppose Faloye supported Isreal%27s ally%2C South Africa%28the apartheid regime of Isreal was an ally of apartheid South Africa%29%21%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd if God is on the Isrealis side%2C then this war should be over.  Indeed%2C were he on their side%2C they would not have been slaughtered during the Holocaust.  Due centuries of persection%2C there are very few Jews left in Europe%2C and in some countries like Poland they will all murdered by the Christians.%0D%0A%0D%0ASo why did not God stop the followers of Christ from murdering the Jews%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AIsreal%27s economy is wrecked%2C and things will only get worse.  Isreal is doomed%2C particluarly when the Muslims%2C due high population growth%2C assume the majority there.  Who kows%2C Isreal likely will not even last that long.%0D%0A%0D%0A
123|31|121|||||To Sholaz.|Akinola Faloye||14:29:23|04/09/2002|Sholaz%2C you are right%2C and so also is Akinola Faloye. You wrote that Arafat%27s wife WAS a Christian%2C and I wrote that she IS NOT a Christian.%0D%0A%0D%0AI still do not know if she WAS a Christian BEFORE she married Arafat. What I do know is that male moslems generally LOVE to marry female Christians%2C and then convert them into moslems. This practice actually has its root in the Qu%27ran. Your prophet Mohammed%27s first wife WAS a Christian%2C and JokiIrun%27s first wife WAS a Christian.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhat I just don%27t understand is why those male moslems CHANGE those Christian females into what they were NOT before marrying them. Male moslems find those female Christians attractive and intelligent enough for them to marry%2C why MUST they forcefully change them to what they NEVER were%3B moslems%3F I know that JokiIrun is going to say that he never forced his wife to become a moslem%2C and I also have a feeling that such a declaration will be a lie%21
127|32|123|||||RE%3A To Akin|sholaz||19:46:12|04/09/2002|Akin%0D%0AThere you go again.It goes both ways and infact is more tilted in xtianity%27s favour since some muslim ladies prefer to marry a xtian believing rightly or wrongly that with  xtians they are sure of being an only wife.Besides%2Cwe have seen men who had changed their faith because of their wives so like I said %2Cit goes both way.Christians who marries muslims equally tries to make them embrace their faith. 
129|32|123|||||RE%3A To Sholaz.|jokiIrun||20:53:28|04/09/2002|%3ESholaz%2C you are right%2C and so also is Akinola Faloye. You %0D%0A%3Ewrote that Arafat%27s wife WAS a Christian%2C and I wrote that %0D%0A%3Eshe IS NOT a Christian. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI still do not know if she WAS a Christian BEFORE she %0D%0A%3Emarried Arafat. What I do know is that male moslems %0D%0A%3Egenerally LOVE to marry female Christians%2C and then convert %0D%0A%3Ethem into moslems. This practice actually has its root in %0D%0A%3Ethe Qu%27ran. Your prophet Mohammed%27s first wife WAS a %0D%0A%3EChristian%2C and JokiIrun%27s first wife WAS a Christian. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EWhat I just don%27t understand is why those male moslems %0D%0A%3ECHANGE those Christian females into what they were NOT %0D%0A%3Ebefore marrying them. Male moslems find those female %0D%0A%3EChristians attractive and intelligent enough for them to %0D%0A%3Emarry%2C why MUST they forcefully change them to what they %0D%0A%3ENEVER were%3B moslems%3F I know that JokiIrun is going to say %0D%0A%3Ethat he never forced his wife to become a moslem%2C and I also %0D%0A%3Ehave a feeling that such a declaration will be a lie%21 %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A    Akin%2C%0D%0A     %0D%0A       I laugh and laugh to the point of cracking my ribs%2Cat your assertion up there that my %22first wife WAS a christian%22.So how about my second%2Cthird and fourth wives%3FOr how many are they altogerther%3FLook Akin %27you dey craze%27.What gives you the impression that i%27am a polygamist or a divorcee%3FWho do you think i am%3FA rich illiterate and conservative Ulama%3FOr an Abiola type of educated Muslem%3FOr just who do you think i am%3FAlso%2Chow old do you think i am now%3FIn my 40s%2C50s%2C60s%2C70s%2Can octo or a nona-generian%3FWhere do you think i live and what do you think is my calling%3FA village babalawo who lives in one of the remote conners of a 4th world country%3FOr a large scale peasant farmer living in an Ekiti jungle%3FWho do you think that that my %22first wife of your imargination is%22%3FA village old woman%3FAn Akara seller at jankara market%3FOr an omo alata at Dugbe%3FOr an Iya alaso at Obun Eko%3FYou are free to make as many guesses as you can.However%2Cif you think that i must be a polygamist simply because i%27am a Muslem%2Cthen you miss it.There is nothing in Islamic Religion that makes it compulsory for its adherents to marry more than one wife at all cost.You hear%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A     Concerning the conversion of my %22first wife%22of your imagination into Islam from her initial Christian faith%2Ci can assure you that it came about freely out of her own volition%2Cinterest and convinction.In my home%2Cnobody forces anything on any body.Ours is a very free%2Cvery democratic and very egalitarian family.What makes you feel that this %22declaration of mine is a lie%22%3FHave i ever told any lie since we knew each other on this site%3FIf so site example%2Ci mean just one.Otherwise your feeling in this regard lacks credibility and should therefore be treated as such.Nevertheless%2Cthank you for amusing me%2Chave a nice time and God bless.%0D%0A%0D%0A     
124|31|121|||||To Jason.|Akinola Faloye||14:49:10|04/09/2002|Jason%2C the day that I gathered that you were a black American%2C or is it African American%2C who looks like a Fulani or Hausa from Nigeria%2C was the day that I FINALLY understood your complexes%21%0D%0A%0D%0AI would like to discuss the Jewish race from Biblical standpoint with you%2C but I doubt it that you can objectively deal with the issue because of your presuppositions of Jewish people.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen it comes to races in the world%2C I as a black man%2C prefers my own race. But that is an EMOTIONAL argument%2C and it is very difficult to argue against it%2C facts or no facts. I can hang with you in bashing white people and Jewish people. And I probably have more ammunitions  to %22shoot%22 at the %22character%22%2C or lack of it%2C of white people%2C but what would that accomplish%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AYou%2C as a black American%2C need to stop being a co-conspirator in your own second enslavement by freeing your mind of all those prejudices%21%21%21
125|32|124|||||To JokiIrun.|Akinola Faloye||15:05:31|04/09/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-02 AT 03:06 PM (GMT+1)]JokiIrun%2C I accept your challenge and%2C I am waiting PATIENTLY for those quotes out of my %22so called%22 Holy Bible.%0D%0A%0D%0ADid you know that you can make your points without diminishing the significance of the HOLY BIBLE%2C by describing  it as the %22so called%22%3F In response to your past negative characterization of the Christians%27 Holy Book%2C I in turn%2C negatively characterized the Qu%27ran.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow that an olive branch has been extended to all concerned%2C I %0D%0Abelieve that you will be doing your faith a great disservice by reopening an old wound.%0D%0A%0D%0A
126|33|125|||||RE%3A To JokiIrun.|jokiIrun||18:23:46|04/09/2002|%3EJokiIrun%2C I accept your challenge and%2C I am waiting %0D%0A%3EPATIENTLY for those quotes out of my %22so called%22 Holy Bible. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EDid you know that you can make your points without %0D%0A%3Ediminishing the significance of the HOLY BIBLE%2C by %0D%0A%3Edescribing  it as the %22so called%22%3F In response to your past %0D%0A%3Enegative characterization of the Christians%27 Holy Book%2C I in %0D%0A%3Eturn%2C negatively characterized the Qu%27ran. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ENow that an olive branch has been extended to all concerned%2C %0D%0A%3EI %0D%0A%3Ebelieve that you will be doing your faith a great disservice %0D%0A%3Eby reopening an old wound. %0D%0A%0D%0A   Brand New Akins%2C%0D%0A   %0D%0A     So you can ever respond so softly like this%3FHurray%21Glory be to God in the highest.Wonders shall not end.So Akin does know that there is something like %22deservice to one%27s faith%22.Thank God for His mercies%2Cour prayers are being answered%2Cwhat a marvelous God is ours%2C and to Him be praise and adoration for ever and ever amen.So you were hurt by my mild denounciation of the Bible with the word %22so called%22%3FMy apology%21Can you now see how such things hurt%3FSo desist from it completely%2Cso we get along as real good friends and brothers that we are supposed to be.However%2Cyou must acknowledge my efforts in moving you to turn over a new leave this much.First by words on this site and then by %27cola%27 whenever we see%2Cas i hope to meet you physically some day%2CGod%27s willing.So i%27am waiting.Cheers. 
128|34|126|||||RE%3A To JokiIrun.|Akinola Faloye||20:41:37|04/09/2002|Yes JokiIrun%2C you were responsible for turning me around%2C Allahu Akbar%21 But did you notice that I did NOT threaten you%3F Remember that I had told you in the past that my GOD is a capable SOVEREIGN GOD. HE fights HIS own fight IF and WHEN HE wants to. I do not have to kill anyone in defence of HIS NAME%2C HIS WORD or HIS HOLY BOOK%21 I merely warned you to desist from engaging in belittling my HOLY BOOK%2C because I know that you moslems are too thin skinned to graciously accept a PAYBACK%21%0D%0A%0D%0AYou may choose to ignore my warning at your own %22peril%22. By peril%2C I mean total and complete loss of your own SENSITIVITY%2C because I know what is going to happen when I reengage you moslems. Those who live in a glass house need to get dressed in the cellar%3B don%27t expose yourself%21%0D%0A%0D%0ANow%2C let%27s get to the challenge quickly%2C before I get back to my old self%21%21%21
130|35|128|||||RE%3A To JokiIrun.|jokiIrun||22:33:16|04/09/2002| %0D%0A%0D%0A   AKIN%2C%0D%0A   Here are your words %22---my GOD is a capable SOVEREIGN GOD.He fights HIS own fight IF and WHEN HE wants to.I do not have to kill anyone in defence of HIS NAME%2CHIS WORLD or HIS HOLY BOOK%21%22%0D%0A%0D%0A    Your above claims call for one or two questions from you and i will be very delighted if you could please answer me as best as you possibly can.However%2Cbefore i ask the question%28s%29%2Clets go into the Bible and cull out some entries.So follow me to read the whole chapter 13 of Deuteronomy.Here we go%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A           %22If prophet or one who foretells by dreams%2Cappears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder%2Cand if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place%2Cand he says%2C%22Let us follow other gods and let us worship them%22%2Cyou must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer.The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.It is the Lord your God you must follow%2Cand him you must revere.Keep his commands and obey him%3Bserve him and hold fast to him.That prophet or dreamer MUST BE PUT TO DEATH%2CBECAUSE HE PREACHED REBELLION AGAINST THE LORD YOUR GOD%2Cwho brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery%3Bhe has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow.You must purge the evil from among you%22.%0D%0A%0D%0A           %22If your very own brother%2Cor your son or daughter%2Cor the wife you love%2Cor your closest friend secretly entices you%2Csaying%2C%22let us go and worship other gods%22do not yield to him or listen to him.Show him no pity.Do not spare him or shield him.YOU MUST CERTAINLY PUT HIM TO DEATH YOUR HAND MUST BE FIRST IN PUTTING HIM TO DEATH%2CAND THEN THE HANDS OF ALL THE PEOPLE.STONE HIM TO DEATH BECAUSE HE TRIED TO TURN YOU FROM THE LORD YOUR GOD---%22.%0D%0A%0D%0A          %22If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray%2Csaying %2C%22Let us go and worship other gods%22%2Cthen you must inquire%2Cprobe and investigate it thoroughly.And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you%2CYOU MUST CERTAINLY PUT TO THE SWARD%2CALL WHO LIVE IN THAT TOWN.DESTROY IT COMPLETELY%2CBOTH ITS PEOPLE AND ITS LIVESTOCK.GATHER ALL THE PLUNDER OF THE TOWN INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE PUBLIC SQURE AND COMPLETELY BURN THE TOWN AND ALL ITS PLUNDER AS A WHOLE BURNT OFFERING TO THE LORD YOUR GOD.IT IS TO REMAIN A RUIN FOREVER%2CNEVER TO BE REBUILT.NONE OF THOSE CONDEMNED THINGS SHALL BE FOUND IN YOUR HANDS SO THAT THE LORD WILL TURN FROM HIS FIERCE ANGER---%22%28Emphasies included%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A     %0D%0A      You will note that all the dasterdly murderous acts ordered or commanded in the above Biblical quotations were %28or are%2Csince the biblical words are said to be living words%29 in defence of %22YOUR LORD AND GOD%22.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow my questions%3A%0D%0A   %0D%0A    1. Does this LORD AND GOD refer to the same sovereign and capable GOD that you talk about in your own claim as i quoted from your posting%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A   2.If if your answer to the first question is in the affirmative%2Cthen do you agree with the view that the above Biblical quotation has effectively contradicted or debunked your claims about that one and only Lord and God%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A  3.If your answer to question one is negative%2Cthen the reasonable conclusion that one can draw is that Your own sovereign and capable God is different from the the Lord and God of the Biblical quotation above.One is then obliged to ask%2Cwhich God is that your own sovereign and capable God%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A   I think that these three questions will be OK for now%2Clet me not bore you with too many%2Cso you %27ll be able to give them the detail treatment they deserve.Have you read my posting no 129 above%3FI also have a number of questions for you there.I hope you%27ll answer them too.Looking forward to reading from you%2Ccheers and God bless.%0D%0A%0D%0A   %0D%0A%0D%0A   
133|36|130|||||RE%3A To Faloye.|myself||01:39:42|04/10/2002|That truce of not belittling one%27s religion i beleive on your part is a hogwash%2C if anything it is temporary untill  you get frustrated again.%0D%0AI do not want you to come back and give any explanations about JOki%27s Quotes from the Bible%2Ci think it should only be reciprocated in kind to you since you do not accept any explanations about the Quran either.%0D%0AJust one more addition to Joki%27s%3A Leviticus 24%3A11-16%0D%0A%0D%0A%22The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the name of of the lord with a curse%3Bso they  brought him to Moses.%28His mother%27s name was was Shelomith%2C the daughter of Dibri the Danite.%29They put him in custody untill the WILL OF THE LORD should be made Clear to them.%0D%0A%0D%0AThen THE LORD SAID TO MOSES%3A Take  the blasphemer outside the camp.All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head and the entire assembly is to stone him.Say to the Israelites %3A%27If anyone curses his God%2C he will be held responsible%3Banyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be PUT TO DEATH.The entire assembly must stone him.Whether an alien or native-born%2C when he balsphemes the Name%2C he MUST BE PUT TO DEATH.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AI do not know where you get your idea from about moslems marrying women and forcing them to convert to islam.In my family most women married these days by my cousins and brothers are christains%2C i must tell you some of them DID convert to islam %2C but some of them are still christains%2C no one bothers them aobut that.%0D%0A%0D%0AI am ashamed to say that i played straight into your hand%2C by what has happened%2C but if you are a good character judgement%2C you will know that i am not the violent type%2C moslem or not.But i am sure i will never hear the end of that slip up%2C by direct or indirect refferal to it  from time to time.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A
131|1|0|||||A Veil of Crisis%3A UPDATE|JO||00:55:43|04/10/2002|The News %28Lagos%29%0D%0A%0D%0AOPINION%0D%0AApril 9%2C 2002 %0D%0APosted to the web April 9%2C 2002 %0D%0A%0D%0AKunle Owolabi%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AA female student%27s love for the Islamic dress code draws a wedge between her%2C her parents and the university authorities%0D%0A%0D%0AMiss Azizat Adetokunbo Amusa%2C 21%2C is a Muslim. Devout as any other%2C Azizat%2C a 300-level Management and Accounting student of Obafemi Awolowo University%2C Ile-Ife%2C allows her religion to manifest in all she does%2C including her mode of dressing. Azizat clads herself in clothes that cover every part of her body. She completes it with the use of a veil which equally hides her face from the public. For this dress code%2C she has become an object of persecution and controversy. The attack against her mode of dressing began right from her home. And incredible as it seems%2C the attack was initiated by her parents%2C who ostensibly believe their daughter is tending more towards fanaticism.%0D%0A%0D%0AAzizat has%2C however%2C sued her parents for disallowing her from wearing Islamic dresses. Also joined in the suit filed at the Ile-Ife High Court%2C Osun State%2C are the Vice Chancellor of the University%2C Professor Roger Makanjuola%2C The Registrar%2C Mrs. B.O. Iluyomade and the school%27s governing council. Through her counsel%2C Mr. Adebayo Shittu%2C Azizat is seeking an order of the court for the enforcement of her fundamental human rights under section 34-42 of the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria of 1999. She also prayed the court for a pronouncement that wearing of the Islamic dress is legitimate%2C lawful and a valid fundamental religious right of individuals as guaranteed by the constitution. Although the case is in court%2C the controversy and persecution rage on.%0D%0A%0D%0ATo many people%2C the parents%27 attitude%2C particularly the father%27s%2C is somewhat surprising%2C given the state of under-dress in which the Nigerian society %28especially the females%29 is revelling. As moralists and clergy alike condemn the bare-it-all culture of dressing among the females%2C Mr. Amusa%2C Azizat%27s father%2C condemns the cover-it-all attires or so it seems.%0D%0A%0D%0AFor Azizat The use of veil %28Niqab%29 did not materialise in a day. It developed over a period of three or four years%2C passing through varying stages. Before she was admitted into Obafemi Awolowo University%2C Azizat lived within the gates of her parents%27 house. Then she was moderate in her dressing%2C according to her parents%27 standard.%0D%0A%0D%0ANothing changed in Azizat%27s dress code until she got to part II first semester%2C when she started using Ijab %28a sizeable scarf%29%2C to cover her head. This new look%2Cshe said%2C her parents frowned seriously at. %22I wrote letters to explain everything to them but they failed to see reason with me%2C%22 she explained.%0D%0A%0D%0AShe however continued the use of Ijab. Her parents%27 strong aversion for her new found dress code played out when she got home after the semester break. Her father seized and burnt all her Ijabs%2C claiming that %22she is not presentable to people whenever she puts that thing on.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AUndeterred by her father%27s action%2C Azizat went back after the school resumed for the second semester. She did not only replace her Ijab%2C she added some inches to it. This act again drew the ire of her father. Her father was bent on checking her excesses. This opportunity did not come until the six month break by OAU.%0D%0A%0D%0ALike all other students%2C Azizat went home. She told TheNEWS that rather than enjoy the vacation%2C the six months turned out to be crises-ridden. Her father repeated the feat of burning all her long dresses and the big Ijabs. She was even prevented from observing her salat %28prayer%29 which the father said was too long. %22At times%2C they stopped me from observing my solat%2C saying I spent longer hours than necessary during prayer. At another time%2C they made me wear skimpy dresses and sent me on an errand compulsorily%2C%22 Azizat said.%0D%0A%0D%0AAzizat still remained undaunted in her resolve. The final straw came when she got back to school in year 2001. Now a part III student%2C she said she could not have settled for anything less. Azizat reverted from using Ijab. Instead she adopted the %28Niqab%29 veil and covered herself up completely. That was in early November%2C 2001.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen her father got wind of this%2C he was mad at her. According to Azizat%2C her father made a drastic move to keep her from school once and for all. She revealed further%3A %22One day%2C they %28her parents%29 came to school with spiritualists to command me to follow them home%2C but they failed.%22 Disappointed%2C her parents left for Lagos. But the battle was far from over. Azizat received calls from her mother who threatened to deal ruthlessly with her whenever she caught up with her. Still%2C she failed to yield her ground. Hence%2C the failure of threats. Then%2C her mother employed another trick. She sent Azizat%27s cousins and friends to persuade her to come home%2C as they %28her parents%29 had accepted her mode of dressing. Azizat recalled a specific instance in which her mother was crying on the phone%2C if only that would soften her heart and draw her back home.%0D%0A%0D%0AAlthough she took her mother%27s wailings with a pinch of salt%2C yet%2C blood ties doused her reasoning. She fell for her mother%27s call. When she finally told her mother she would come home%2C the mother was very happy. A driver was sent to Ife to carry her home on 24 November 2001. The reality later dawned on her when she got home.%0D%0A%0D%0AThat fateful day at home%2C Azizat found herself surrounded by about 20 people in the sitting room. With her veil on%2C she stood in front of the family panel. As she visualised what would happen to her next%2C her father ordered some men among the congregation to tear her veil into pieces and possibly%2C strip her naked.%0D%0A%0D%0AAzizat told TheNEWS that she suffered a fate worse than death that day. %22They almost stripped me naked in front of the people %28men and women%29. My father later descended heavily on me%2C beating me with koboko %28horsewhip%29. He beat me mercilessly and told me he is my father and he could kill me if I failed to listen to him.%22 All her dresses and the veils were burnt thereafter.%0D%0A%0D%0AAfter a bout of severe beating%2C she was locked up. Her parents also prevented her from going back to school. Her staying behind doors was temporary as she planned her way out of her father%27s hostility. In her escape attempt%2C Azizat jumped over the fence of her father%27s house but she was spotted by her younger brother who practically raised an alarm.%0D%0A%0D%0AVery desperate to escape what she termed %27the prison house%2C%27 she ran like an Olympic medalist%2C widening the gap between her and those running after her. When it was clear those chasing her would not overtake her%2C her father devised a dangerous strategy. He shouted Ole%21 Ole%21 %28thief%29. Within a twinkling of an eye%2C a mob had apprehended Azizat%2C as uncountable hands descended on the hapless girl. According to Azizat%2C it took a timely intervention of a family friend who rescued her from the mob%27s punches. Mr. Amusa did not stop at that. He dragged Azizat back home.%0D%0A%0D%0AMeanwhile he enlisted the help of a spiritualist to solve his daughter%27s perceived problem. %22They hypnotized me and performed various rituals on me. That was a Saturday. The second day I got home. On Monday%2C I was taken to the Redeemed Christian Church of God %28RCCG%29 at Gbagada Estate for spiritual deliverance%2C%22 Azizat said.%0D%0A%0D%0AShe was brought home after the church deliverance. Convinced by the men of God that Azizat had overcome her spiritual problems%2C her parents allowed her to go back to school after four days of spiritual war. If her parents thought these series of ritual and spiritual exercises had cured her of her dogged adherence to the Islamic code of dressing%2C they were very wide of the mark in their assumption.%0D%0A%0D%0AOn getting to campus%2C Azizat narrated her ordeal in the hands of her parents. Her Muslim sisters quickly came to her rescue by providing her with new veils and other clothes. Now%2C Azizat has dared her father once again.%0D%0A%0D%0AAttempts to confirm the story from her father were fruitless. Many visited Mr. Amusa%27s Lagos residence at 21%2C Thomas Salako street%2C Ijaiye%2C Ogba and his Adelola House office No. 40 Opebi Street%2C Ikeja produced no response.%0D%0A%0D%0ABack in school%2C the authorities of the Obafemi Awolowo University issued a press release on students%27 dress code on campus. In the special release to all students%2C dated 21 February 2001%2C with reference number R.DCS%2FPRO%2F2 and signed by the Registrar and Secretary to the council%2C Mrs. B.O. Iluyomade%2C the University governing council considered the adoption of a dress code for the students on campus.%0D%0A%0D%0AAccording to the release%2C the council said the decision is taken in %22the interest of public decency as well as ethical and security reasons which necessitate the need to identify every member of the community and impress on them the need to be decently dressed.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AConsequently%2C the release went further%2C %22dressing which is sexually provocative and exposes vital parts of the body that are supposed to be hidden and forms of dressing that obscures identification are hereby prohibited on campus.%22 In a swift reaction%2C the Muslim Students%27 Society of Nigeria%2C Obafemi Awolowo University Branch%2C Ile-Ife%2C accused the university authorities of being biased in their release.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe rejoinder dated 28 February%2C 2002 said the use of veil is a direct injunction of Allah who commanded in chapter 33 %28Suratul Ahzab%29 verse 59 thus%3A %22O prophet%21 Tell your wives and your daughters and the believing women to draw their veils all over their bodies.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AOn the guideline which stated that the identity of all students must at all times be visible%2C the rejoinder said this %22is totally unacceptable. This is a gross violation of our freedom of worship%2C thought and religion%3A %22we will not hesitate to oppose any other guideline drawn up by any faculty%2Fdepartment%2C which denies Muslims the right to outwardly manifest their faith. We would also%2C Insa Allah%2C resist any form of victimisation%2C embarrassment or hindrance from any quarters.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Public Relations Officer of the University%2C Mr. Emmanuel Afolabi%2C said the situation is under control as the school is not losing any sleep over the matter. %22Since the governing council is the highest ruling body%2C it has made its pronouncement on the issue of dress code and so it is binding on everybody.%22 He stated further that%2C the dress code being observed by the female Muslims constitutes security and identity problems on the university campus. Mr. Afolabi hinted that such dress code may provide a platform under which the cultists carry out their dastardly act. Besides%2C Afolabi said%2C during the period of examinations%2C someone may hide under the veil%2C to impersonate another student. To check examination malpractices therefore%2C it is compulsory for every student to leave his or her face uncovered for easy recognition%2C Afolabi said. He concluded that this will not serve as a stumbling block to anybody or hinderance to any religion. %22The fact is%2C nobody is saying they should not practise their religion but they must also bear with the school by operating within the ambiance of the university%27s rules and regulations.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Amir %28President%29 of MSSN%2C brother Haroun Okedeyi however held a divergent opinion. He was of before the Muslim sisters began veiling completely%2C cult groups had operated ceaselessly and are still operating. Thus%2C the issue of veils constituting security risk is out of it.%0D%0A%0D%0AOn the question of the identity of a person under veil%2C the Amir said it is a simple case. All the school needs do is to ask a female worker to identify the person under the veil%2C Okedeyi mentioned the case of one sister Basirat Awal%2C a graduate of Quantity Surveying from the same institution. Basirat%2C he said%2C wrote her final examination and defended her thesis under the veil. The school had asked female staff member to identify Basirat.%0D%0A%0D%0AFor now%2C Azizat has abandoned home for good. Her problems are however not over as she encounters difficulties in school as well at home - both from lecturers and students. In November last year%2C a lecturer demonstrated his aversion for Azizat%27s mask and ordered her to leave his class or the class would not hold. Another lecturer was reported to have made a similar demand during Business Law 307 class%2C a week after.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn these circumstances%2C Azizat is not alone. One Shakirat Bamigbade%2C a part two student of Basic Medical Sciences of the Faculty of Health Sciences%2C was not only prevented from writing her test%2C when she failed to unveil herself%2C she was also prevented from registering for both Harmattan and Rain Semesters of the current academic year. When the dean of the faculty denied her registration%2C she went to the Directorate of Students Affairs %28DSA%29 to lodge a complaint. The DSA in turn directed her to the vice chancellor%27s office. At the VC%27s office%2C the situation was the same. The VC directed her back to the dean of her faculty.%0D%0A%0D%0AFor the Dean%2C Professor Durosinmi%2C Shakirat will be registered%2C only if she unveils. The matter at that faculty is a bit interesting and sensitive%3A the student involved in the problem is a Muslim%2C so also is the dean of the faculty. As the matter stands now%2C Shakirat risks losing her studentship going by the school regulations which stipulates that if a students fails to register for two semesters%2C he or she ceases to be a student of the institution.%0D%0A%0D%0AOn her court case%2C Azizat said she only wanted the court to restrain her parents and the university authorities from stopping her from dressing the way she likes.%0D%0A%0D%0A
132|2|131|||||RE%3A A Veil of Crisis%3A UPDATE|JO||01:05:32|04/10/2002|As much as I have enjoyed this discussion%2C I think you guys have strayed a little from the subject.  Hopefully%2C the above update will help to re-focus on the subject at hand.%0D%0A%0D%0AMy opinion is that the parents have come down a little harsh on this girl and it is possible that their actions might have driven her towards her more fundamentalist stance.  Something%2C I%27m not sure of is whether Azeez is the first girl to wear a veil %40 OAU%2C or at any southern university. I didn%27t get this%3A her muslim parents took her to the Redeemed Christian Churh of God%21  Very strange story indeed and perhaps does require the court%27s intervention after all.%0D%0A
134|3|132|||||RE%3A A Veil of Crisis%3A UPDATE|myself||04:59:05|04/10/2002|Jo%0D%0A%0D%0AWe did stray from the point at hand.But FALOYE started it%21%21%0D%0A%0D%0AWell about the issue at hand%2C for Azeeza%27s parent%2C whatever happened to loving your child unconditionally%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AI think they need  to reach  a compromise with the faculty  Dean.%0D%0A%0D%0AFor identification purposes%2C Azeeza should be willing to leave her face open%2C and she should be allowed to wear her hijab%2C without the face cover%2C however if there is ever any need to search her they must get a female security to the search.%0D%0AThere are cases in islam classified as %27lallura%27%2Cwhich i will say translates to %27special circumstances%27 or %27exceptions%27.It allows you to put aside some rules and regualtions due to circumstances at hand.And when she finishes her studies or out of lecture room or campus she can put her veil back on. 
135|4|134|||||RE%3A A Veil of Crisis%3A UPDATE|PapiLuwe||08:29:45|04/10/2002|Azizat is a true daughter of her father%2C she is just as stubborn%21 I can%27t believe that Parents were naive enough to Koboko a 21 year old girl and expect her to change%21 She has chosen her path - the Parents and the University Authorities must respect that%2C she is a grown Woman for crying out loud. There is nothing they can do about the teasing of fellow Students but they must protect her from the excesses of Lecturers and HOD%27s who are making her life a misery.%0D%0ALike Agsoba and Akinola noted%2C it is indeed ironic that Muslims are now finding Solace under the same constitution that has been scoffed at in Zamfara%2C but that should be secondary - what is of utmost importance is that Azizat should not be punished for practising her faith.
136|5|135|||||RE%3A A Veil of Crisis%3A UPDATE|sholaz||09:04:56|04/10/2002|Jo%2C%0D%0AThanks for redirecting our focus on this topic%2C but with Akin on the beat one will always stray especially if the topic is Islam related.With your update%2C some things are beginning to fall into places although it might be subjective since we have not had the benefit of the father%27s side of the story. One can infer that the parents are no more muslims %28spiritualists%2C RCCG deliverance%2Cstoppage of Aziza%27s prayers etc%29and Aziza has thus become an %22embarassment%22 to them.Personally%2CI do feel for that family because I hate for a family to be in disarray but the parents are even compounding the problem the way they are going about it because matters of faith are heart related and there is little if anything at all that force and compulsion can achieve in this regard.
137|6|136|||||To sholaz and myself.|Akinola Faloye||15:27:28|04/10/2002|I know that you guys are pretty good at making charges with no foundation in facts. If you  want to be more convincing%2C all you have to do is conduct an elementary investigation of a statement BEFORE you make it.%0D%0A%0D%0ABoth Myself and Sholaz made the claim that%2C I was responsible for the deviation in the discussion of the original topic. But what evidence do they have to support such a claim%3F None%21%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you go back to the begining of this debate%2C you will notice that I stuck with the original debate up to my article number 13%2C in response to articles number 11 and 12 written by Mr. myself. WE deviated when people like Jason started posting the map of Africa%2C as a means of defending his position that moslems outnumber Christians in Africa%2C even though we were all just discussing NIGERIA. The deviation got even  farther away from its base%2C when moslems started making ridiculous claims about Islam. Those claims prompted me to ask them a direct question%2C and from that point%2C all bets were off.%0D%0A%0D%0AHowever%2C if you moslems still INSIST that I was responsible for the deviation%3B I accept the blame. Can we move on now%3F
138|7|137|||||To JokiIrun and Sholaz.|Akinola Faloye||15:51:05|04/10/2002|For the fear of veering away from our discussion of the original topic%2C I am going to answer your Holy-Bible-related questions by writing the following%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AChristianity lives and dies on four %22pillars%22.%0D%0A%0D%0A1. Incarnation.%0D%0A%0D%0A2. Crucifixion.%0D%0A%0D%0A3. Resurrection.%0D%0A%0D%0A4. Ascension.%0D%0A%0D%0AI can go into details about the significance of the Old Testament laws. I can tell you about what our Saviour Himself has to say in the New Testament about those Laws%2C as well as how the practitioners of Judaism perceive Mosaic Old Testament Laws.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs soon as you start another thread with your concerns about Christianity%2C I will be more than happy to help you deal with them.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhile you are thinking about starting a new thread%2C I want you to ponder this question%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AHow many  violators of Mosaic Laws have been stoned or condemned to death by stoning by the Jews %28 their Holy Book is the Old Testament exclusively %29%2C or by the Christians in the last five thousand %285%2C000%29 years%3F Just consider that for one minute%2C and then consider the number of Sharia violators that have been stoned to death or butchered all over the Islamic world in the last five %285%29 years%21%21%21
139|8|138|||||RE%3A To JokiIrun and Sholaz.|jokiIrun||17:36:14|04/10/2002|  Thanks a lot Jo%2Cfor steering us back on course.With the details now presented%2Calbeit sans the part of Azeeza%27s parents%2Ci%27am disposed to airring the following views%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A    1.Azeeza and all other students of OAU should abide by the rules and regulations of the institution.The show-all dressers should desist from dressing so pornographically as to cause the sensual distraction or seduction of the opposit sex.Then the cover-all dressers should also toll the line of moderacy%2Cin view of the school%27s position on that mode of dressing.In Islam%2Crespect for constituted authority is an article of faith%2Cand i also believe that Christianity preaches thesame virtue.In this respect therefore%2CAzeeza as well as all other muslem students would still be seen as demonstrating the virtues of  good muslems%2Cby obeying the regulations of their school.I think this is what myself meant by the Arabic word %27lalura%27or so.Even in ordinary course of life%2Cadaptation to environment is a basic law of existence.So that is that about that.%0D%0A%0D%0A   2.Azeeza should also respect and obey his parents.She should heed their counsels and always do something to make them happy and well disposed towards her%2Csuch that she might be qualified for their prayers%2Cupon which the prophet%28SAW%29 and even God placed a lot of premium.However%2Cthis respect%2Chonor%2Creverence and obedience to her parents should be limited only by any act on the part of her parents that tends to steer her away from the worship and adoration of God%2Cour one and only God%2Cthe Almighty Allah%2Cto the exclusion of all other beings or things%2Ceither here on earth or elsewhere.At that point%2Cshe should call their bluff and disobey them totally and damn the consequences.She is Islamically protected to so behave and the laws of the land also cover her.So no qualms.In this regard%2Cshe should not follow them to any RCCG or whatever name it is called%2Cor any other decieptful healing home for that matter.God is the only healer of human ailments%2Call others are mere%2Cmere what%3FYour guess is as good as mine.%0D%0A%0D%0AAkin%2C%0D%0A   Since it is a general consensus that we stick to the original issue%2Clet%27s then suspend further discussions on other religious matters that you introduced.However%2Cit should be noted that you have so far failed to answer any of my questions in my last two postings.I say this because it is your style to always accuse people of not answering your posers.So let it be on record that you are now guilty of the charge for which you are fond of accusing others.You may wish to open a new thread for the continuation of the talks%2Cif you so desire.Whenever you do%2Cyou will always meet me as a man%2CGod%27s willing.Looking forward to hearing from you%2Ccheers and God bless.%0D%0A   %0D%0A%0D%0A   
140|9|139|||||RE%3A To JokiIrun and Sholaz.|AGSOBA69||19:51:51|04/10/2002|Joki%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AYou wrote%2C%5Bhr%5D%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%5Bfont color %3Dmaroon%5D%22Azeeza and all other students of OAU should abide by the rules and regulations of the institution...Then the cover-all dressers should also toll the line of moderacy%2C%5Bb%5Din view of the school%27s position on that mode of dressing.%5B%2Fb%5D  In Islam%2Crespect for constituted authority is an article of faith%2C ...  In this respect therefore%2C Azeeza as well as all other muslem students would still be seen as demonstrating the virtues of  good muslems%2C by obeying the regulations of their school.%22%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AI am at a loss here.  Would you please reconcile that with the following.%5Bhr%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%5Bfont color%3Dmaroon%5D%22The rejoinder dated 28 February%2C 2002 said the use of veil is a direct injunction of Allah who commanded in chapter 33 %28Suratul Ahzab%29 verse 59 thus%3A %22O prophet%21 Tell your wives and your daughters and the believing women to draw their veils all over their bodies.%22%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Fi%5D%5Bhr%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ASince the lady is already twenty-one%2C your second view is inconsequential.  But I hope you would not advise children to disobey their parents now%2C would you%3F